Forester 2013 Subaru Forester now officially announced

[martinbo]

In news that nobody here at GermanCarForum - barring me - would be remotely interested in, it appears that the all-new 4th generation has been leaked onto the the interwebs.

In a blurred and distorted scan of what appears to be an internal new product briefing document we're shown, well, nothing all that exciting - as usual. What is portrayed, however, does seem very much like the real thing for what it's worth. Once more Subaru seems to be playing it with a safe, conservative styling approach which has, in the past, worked for Subaru in some markets and worked against it in others. So, no one's expecting it to light up the automotive catwalks any time soon.

But then Forester's never been about the external flash. Fans of the model will quietly appreciate the unique engine/drivetrain combination, industrial strength engineering and overall ownership satisfaction.

Now on to the rumour-mongering: no official data is available but, scraping together tid-bits from here and there, some highly plausible information comes to light.

Speculatively, three engines are expected to be offered in Europe:

- 2.0 XS model with a normally aspirated 2.0 litre FB20 direct injection petrol Boxer engine circa 110 kW (150 hp) [Transmissions: 6MT and 8-step CVT]
- 2.0 D model with 2.0 litre turbodiesel Boxer circa 108 kW (147 hp) [6MT gearbox initially; CVT to follow]
- 2.0 XT model with 2.0 litre direct injection turbopetrol Boxer circa 180 kW (240 hp) [8-Step CVT only]

Rumours abound of a lower-range gear ratio reduction mechanism on the naturally aspirated CVT-equipped model.

As is the norm these days the new Forester will grow a smidge in length, width and height but will gain no more weight whilst retaining the useful 220 mm of ground clearance. Cabin space looks to be significantly improved due to better interior packaging. The dashboard is inhereted pretty much as-is from Impreza and whilst it won't garner any acclaim for its aesthetic appeal at least proper, soft touch plastics make a welcome return to Forester.

So there you have it - no real fireworks or surprise and delight for the next generation Forester. But this won't worry the existing Forester faithful or those looking for all-round, fuss free competence. With a capital C.

Martin

 

[Giannis]

Time for a new Forester, Martin?

 

[martinbo]

It's always time for a new Forester Giannis. Even if I don't need one. Single most useful car(s) I've ever owned.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Is only me, or the new design has a Toyota look to it?

BTW Martin, you remind me of my brother in law, he loves Subarus. Has an Impreza and three Foresters right now

 

[MikeJ]

Subaru seems to have strong brand loyalty. My dad's on his third Outback now...

 

[martinbo]

Is only me, or the new design has a Toyota look to it?

BTW Martin, you remind me of my btother in law, he loves Subarus. Has an Impreza and three Foresters right now

Don't see an explicit Toyota styling cue but it is so generic that one could see just about anything in it.

Yip, your brother in law has good taste in cars I'm on Subarus 4 and 5 at the moment. My Forester is the last of the 2.5 turbo manuals - probably won't see another turbo manual Forrie outside of the JDM ever again - and it's utterly wonderful. I've never seen such a broadly useful and enjoyable car.

Subaru seems to have strong brand loyalty. My dad's on his third Outback now...

I like your Dad. Seems like my kinda guy. In a number of markets Subaru is marketed and promoted properly and their YoY growth shows. Australia is a good example. Canada and the US too - folks who are able to successfully convey the unique value proposition achieve commensurate adoption rates. Here in SA on the other hand the brand is as dead as a dodo - Porsche sell more Cayennes than Subaru sells their entire range. Complete decay that's inexplicable as their product range is as sound as its ever been.

 

[Sunny]

I hope they do a STI version again. Just saw this video recently of the old STI on the ring, in the rain, amazing -

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[Betty Swollocks]

It's always time for a new Forester Giannis. Even if I don't need one. Single most useful car(s) I've ever owned.

Another example of how driving enjoyment/satisfaction doesn't have to be the preserve of exotic, high powered cars like Porsches and BMWs. Whether that be you in your Forester or Giannis in his basic Clio. It's like food. You can go to all the fancy and expensive restaurants you like, but it doesn't mean eating a basic omelette, but cooked perfectly, isn't going to be just as satisfying.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Another example of how driving enjoyment/satisfaction doesn't have to be the preserve of exotic, high powered cars like Porsches and BMWs. Whether that be you in your Forester or Giannis in his basic Clio. It's like food. You can go to all the fancy and expensive restaurants you like, but it doesn't mean eating a basic omelette, but cooked perfectly, isn't going to be just as satisfying.

+1
Great post, Betty

 

[Giannis]

Another example of how driving enjoyment/satisfaction doesn't have to be the preserve of exotic, high powered cars like Porsches and BMWs. Whether that be you in your Forester or Giannis in his basic Clio. It's like food. You can go to all the fancy and expensive restaurants you like, but it doesn't mean eating a basic omelette, but cooked perfectly, isn't going to be just as satisfying.

About a year ago, I took a basic Forester for a test drive. I was looking at the Daihatsu Terios at that time and the dealership sold both Daihatsu and Subaru. The salesman offered me to compare the Terios to the Forester, to see how good the Terios was. Unfortunately, it was meant to be my father's everyday car, and even though he likes the high seating position, it wasn't what he was looking for. But driving the Forester was a enlightening experience.

The Forester isn't a jack of all trades, master of none, car. It has hard plastics inside, but it has an amazing AWD system. It may be slower than most of its competition (in the basic 2.0l engine I drove), but the engine feels quite right. It was actually less soft compared to my S60, which was a nice surprise. I had fun during the 1.5h I had the car and I took it a bit off road. Sure, it's not the best car to buy if you spend most of your time on the free way, or you are hoping to commute with it. But if you are an adventurous guy and plan not to use it only on the tarmac, it's the most capable SUV in that price range. There was not one momment while on gravel (and speeds above 50km/h) that I didn't feel safe and the car feeling controlable. I never experienced that feeling from Toyota's RAV4 for example.

It's a great car! It's a shame that few people recognize it...

 

[martinbo]

Ah, Sunny the 05-08 Forrie STI. I got all misty eyed. I still love that car.

 

[Sunny]

Ah, Sunny the 05-08 Forrie STI. I got all misty eyed. I still love that car.

Did you have one? I remember you having an an avatar with it.

 

[martinbo]

Great memory, no unfortunately SA was deprived of the Forrie STI. UK imports were also grey via Litchfield.

 

[martinbo]

SUBARU OF NORTH AMERICA PRESS RELEASE ON THE ALL-NEW 2013 FORESTER:

SUBARU REVEALS ALL-NEW 2014 FORESTER CROSSOVER SUV; NEW MODEL TO MAKE NORTH AMERICAN DEBUT AT LOS ANGELES AUTO SHOW

CHERRY HILL, NJ, November 1, 2012 – Subaru of America today released the first official photos of the all-new 2014 Forester crossover SUV, which will make its North American debut at the Los Angeles Auto Show. The new Forester combines a bolder profile than before while offering a roomier interior with virtually the same footprint as the previous model.

The fourth generation of Subaru's popular Forester will offer a new 2.0-liter direct-injection turbocharged BOXER engine producing 250 horsepower. The standard naturally aspirated 2.5-liter BOXER engine debuted in the outgoing Forester model. Fuel economy will be higher across the line with the debut of a new six-speed manual transmission and available Lineartronic® continuously variable transmissions (CVT).

The all-new five-passenger 2014 Forester preserves the optimal blend of SUV capability and car-like ride and handling that have made the Forester one of the Subaru brand's best-selling models for the past 15 years. Refined (or New) suspension system delivers agile handling and a highly compliant ride quality. Generous 8.7 inches of ground clearance enhances off-pavement driving capability.

The 2014 Forester will offer an exceptionally roomy interior, featuring increased rear seat legroom and an enlarged cargo area. In-demand infotainment features will be offered, including smartphone integration, navigation, rear view camera and harman/kardon® premium audio amplifier and speakers.

Basic Vehicle Specifications

Engine types and output

2.5-liter 4-cylinder BOXER, naturally aspirated 170 hp (125 kW) @ 5,800 rpm 174 lb.-ft. (236 Nm) peak torque @ 4,100 rpm

2.0-liter 4-cylinder BOXER, direct fuel injection, turbocharging, intercooler 250 hp (184 kW) @ 5,600 rpm* 258 lb.-ft. (350 Nm) peak torque @ 2,000-4,800 rpm

Transmission

2.5-liter models: 6-speed manual or Lineartronic CVT

2.0-liter turbo: high-torque CVT with 6-speed and 8-speed manual modes and Hill Descent Control

Drivetrain

Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive standard for all models

Wheelbase 103.9 in.
Vehicle length 180.9 in.
Vehicle height 68.2 in (with roof rails)
Vehicle width 70.7 in.

Wheels/tires

2.5-liter: 17 x 7 in. aluminum alloy with 225/60 R17 all-season

2.0-liter turbo: 18 x 7 in. aluminum alloy with 225/55 R18 all-season

* With premium grade gasoline

Forester 2.5 X:

Forester XT:

 

[Giannis]

One thing I never understood was Subaru's obsession with that CVT transmission. I haven't experienced it, but is it as good or even better than a conventional slushbox?

 

[martinbo]

It's more out of necessity than obsession - this pursuit of CVTs...
A couple of factors:

- Because of the highly specific nature of Subaru's symmetrical AWD, Subaru has to develop their own transmissions internally due to custom internal packaging; this prevents opportunity to outsource to OEM supplier like ZF who provide more modular transmission solutions to the big car makers like VAG, BMW and JLR.
- Developing a modern, competitive 8-speed transmission is expensive and cannot be borne by the volumes of a niche brand.
- It's all about ratios these days and the more ratios the more fuel efficient / less emissions; modern 8 speed transmissions are also quite long (3 sets of clutch packs and 4 planetary gear sets for forward speeds) which presents packaging problems for Subaru. CVTs afford Subaru packaging benefits - they're much shorter - and instance access to an infinite (in theory) range of ratio variability. Hence - an equivalent "8 speeds" to the competition.

A CVT isn't the most pleasant driving experience. The variator and link-plate chain transmission is connected to a conventional torque converter and this heightens the sensation of slurring through transmission speeds. They are very fuel efficient however. What I can say is that at least Subaru CVTs are nicer to use than than most others' CVTs in my experience. Also, in a car like a Forester a torque converter is more desirable (read: robust) in off-road conditions than a dual-clutch transmission.

Useless factoid: in Japan, Subaru offers a Legacy 2.0DIT engine coupled with a high-torque CVT since the middle of 2012. With 221 kW and 400 Nm, this is not only the highest combined output of a 2.0 litre turbopetrol engine in series production but also the highest torque application of CVT in mainstream petrol-engined vehicles.

 

[Giannis]

Damn, that's a great response. 10 times better than I expected - good old GCF levels of quality

Martin, I have a few questions, but I'm about to leave for work. I'll be home later tonight to continue this discussion

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

Only thing missing is a hood scoop for the turbo.

Before the Mazda CX-5 would have been my go-to for a compact SUV/crossover, but that turbo option makes it much more palatable. I do wonder how robust the CVT is under medium load, i.e. if I were to hook a small U-Haul to it.

Regarding the CVT's driving performance, if all the positive press is to be believed behind the new Honda Accord's CVT, then there might be some hope for CVT being a viable choice as an auto transmission down the line. But the enthusiast in me can't help shaking my head with the fact that the manual option is completely omitted for the turbo.

Now let's see what the inside looks like.....

 

[martinbo]

Now let's see what the inside looks like.....

Exactly like the new Impreza/XV.

 

[Giannis]

It's more out of necessity than obsession - this pursuit of CVTs...
A couple of factors:

- Because of the highly specific nature of Subaru's symmetrical AWD, Subaru has to develop their own transmissions internally due to custom internal packaging; this prevents opportunity to outsource to OEM supplier like ZF who provide more modular transmission solutions to the big car makers like VAG, BMW and JLR.
- Developing a modern, competitive 8-speed transmission is expensive and cannot be borne by the volumes of a niche brand.
- It's all about ratios these days and the more ratios the more fuel efficient / less emissions; modern 8 speed transmissions are also quite long (3 sets of clutch packs and 4 planetary gear sets for forward speeds) which presents packaging problems for Subaru. CVTs afford Subaru packaging benefits - they're much shorter - and instance access to an infinite (in theory) range of ratio variability. Hence - an equivalent "8 speeds" to the competition.

A CVT isn't the most pleasant driving experience. The variator and link-plate chain transmission is connected to a conventional torque converter and this heightens the sensation of slurring through transmission speeds. They are very fuel efficient however. What I can say is that at least Subaru CVTs are nicer to use than than most others' CVTs in my experience. Also, in a car like a Forester a torque converter is more desirable (read: robust) in off-road conditions than a dual-clutch transmission.

Useless factoid: in Japan, Subaru offers a Legacy 2.0DIT engine coupled with a high-torque CVT since the middle of 2012. With 221 kW and 400 Nm, this is not only the highest combined output of a 2.0 litre turbopetrol engine in series production but also the highest torque application of CVT in mainstream petrol-engined vehicles.

And I'm back for my questions:

1. I understand that Subaru can't outsource their automatic transmissions, so they had to create and evolve their own automatic transmission, a CVT one. This means that this CVT gearbox is the same since, let's say, the 90s? Is the current one a new one, or just an improved version of the old one? If it's a new transmission, any idea what changed?

2. So, a CVT uses the same mechanism to transfer torque to the wheels as a normal automatic gearbox, ie a torque converter, not a clutch. Yet, there are limits to the torque that this transmission can handle. Why is that? Is this the nature of the CVT or just this one, Subaru's CVT?

3. The Forester is meant to taken off the road. Is a CVT transmission suitable for off-roading? This actually may be a dumb question, but I honestly don't know...