Reviews Betty's Visit to the Frankfurt Motor Show 2017

[Betty Swollocks]

Would be interested in your summary of this year's show (hi's, lo's, overall impression) ... even if it's only a very brief one.
I thought about starting a thread on this topic, anyway.

Thought I'd post a new thread rather than being off-topic in the AMG Project One thread.

Overall a great show @Busty Far better than the last two or three, at least based on World Premieres. BMW had a lot to show, and we have other showstoppers such as the Bentley Continental GT and the Project ONE. Tuesday is definitely the way to go compared with the previous five days. Definitely quieter. We arrived at 1400 and stayed until close at 1900, and we saw everything no problem.

BMW - Great hall with lots on display. M5 a bit underwhelming. Same old story. Just looks like an ordinary 5 Series, but then I guess that is the aim. The 8 Series Concept does not "wow" me at all. Don't know what it is as I can't put my finger on it. The previous 6 Series Concept which was at Paris in Oct 2010 completely blew me away. The Z4 Concept looks as good as the photos. The Vision i5 or whatever it's called, looks very smart.

Audi - RS 4 Avant looks superb. Better than the RS 5 Coupe. Audi A8 is very underwhelming. The interior doesn't feel premium at all. The harsh show lights didn't help, and neither did the hundreds of finger prints, but I think the A4 has a more premium feel to it. And I was somebody who thought the critisism of the new A8 in the photos was a bit excessive.

MB - AMG Project One. *mic drop*.

Jag - I don't care about Jag, but I thought I'd take a look at the new E-Pace. Both my dad and I are car fans, so we know our stuff. First he asked "so is this an electric car?" I suspect the name "E-Pace" is going to elicit these questions a lot in the future. And secondly, I sat in one to see how the interior felt. I wasn't impressed. When I got out I realised I'd been sitting in an F-Pace! These models seem very close in size. When I eventually did sit in an E-Pace, I thought the interior was pretty nice actually. Far better than the F-Pace.

I still wouldn't buy a Jag though.

Porsche - new Cayenne. Pretty nice interior. That's about it.

Bentley - New Continental GT looks good, but I don't think the red one they had on display did it justice.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Oh yeah. One more thing. The BMW X7 Concept isn't as big or as ugly in real life.

 

[Busty]

@Betty Swollocks: In that case, the option for a double rating would have been helpful ... anyway: thanks for sharing.

My impressions were somehow similar but very different, at the same time. Don't know whether it was also due to some quite strange business meetings I had but I did not enjoy the IAA as much as the last couple of times. You're absolutely right, there was a lot to see ... still, it left me kinda cold. Also, I found myself thinking "guys, I'm not quite sure whether you realize that this is 2017 and times have changed and some kind of revolution is already taking place" like a dozen times.

BMW: Lots of premieres but exsanguinous booth lacking an overarching concept. Despite lots of space the arrangement felt confusing. I guess, I was also missing a more prominent circular track.

Audi: booth of a dying brand, imo. Concept cars without any inspirational value.

Mercedes: Best booth this year, imo. Good storyline, nice details, not as stuffed (with exhibits) as in past IAAs. I felt that their focus was less on cars but rather on mobility etc. Since I don't care much about supercars without any implication for 'ordinary' cars, I was more focused on the whole orchestration. From an academic design point of view, I still find the AMG too flawed to be a (theoretical) dreamcar to me.

Porsche: Some details of the Panny interior still blow me away, and the Tourismo is quirky enough for me to take a fancy to it. The Cayenne rear looks still veeery F-pace to me in real life, and leaves me cold in general.

Continental GT: As mentioned, my personal highlight (beside the Brabus Classic booth, of course).

Furthermore, I liked the little Honda concept very much, and the Jaguar line-up.

Overall, I guess I would have loved to see more exercises in paradigm change. I know it is taking place at various OEM research centers but I think it is also time to share this future with ordinary customers and put ideas to the test.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

@Betty Swollocks:

...Audi: booth of a dying brand, imo. Concept cars without any inspirational value...

A point worthy of discussion.

I cannot seem to shake the suspicion that Audi will eventually be reinvented as a brand. And not necessarily in a way that will particularly please fans of its' non-SUV offerings. I would not be surprised if the brand was eventually transformed into a purveyor of almost if not absolutely exclusively SUVs'/CUVs'/Crossovers. As far as the premium bonafide passenger car segments are concerned, respective expansions of Bentleys' as well as Porsches' offerings (executive and upper executive class sedans, coupe-sedans and estates, sharing MSB (Evo) and EV platforms with more elevated existing model lines) could render much of what Audi has to offer superfluous. An A6-sized sub-Conti GT/Flying Spur line of automobiles is an interesting proposition.A notchbacked sedan derivative of the Panamera making an A8 redundant ? Or the combination of Panamera liftback sedan + upcoming Mission E making an A7 surplus to requirement ? VW and Skoda can cater to the fleet managers' segment with sedans and estates, MQBEvo or EV-platform-based.

Much will depend on how consumers receive the upcoming A6/A7 lines as well as the A4s' successor.

 

[SCOTT27]

For me car of the show was the Honda Urban EV. For instances it's coming to production and it showcases finally Honda have stopped doing car designing with Legos. Compared to the Civic with its lego appendages on the front and rear, the Urban is clean and minimalist, also cute and that interior could even see production what with a complete bench seat.
Certainly transmissions are nowadays stalks or dials or even buttons on a console so it could be feasible as well as intimate. There is always a period when a car comes along that sets trends and combines culture and youth appeal. Think MINI. I think Urban has the ability and the looks to become that next big thing.

Audi and VW had a lot of Greenery on their stands,even Mercedes had a tree in their hall. All that was missing was giant cut-out "SORRY" sculptures. They had everything else especially "Confidence" in 3-D Letters but sadly no "VIRTUE SIGNALING"

VW Groups design monotony. The Skoda/Audi/VW concepts have increasing familiarity. If you look at the glasshouse especially the rear quarterlight they are all similar. Also the Aicon and the VW iD share the same broad hips and wheel arches in how they bulge out from the body. They are all heading for another design crisis.

Chris Bangle going off on Mercedes-Benz's current state of design (right beside Gordon Wagoner).

Borgwards throwback or (tribute) to pre-90's Renault with the Isabella. (They want to succeed in Europe right?)

Was it me or have Opel gone all French with Herbs infused Cooking Oil all throughout the stand that looked like a Chateu's courtyard.

Espressos in the Cafe Andre on the Citroen stand.

 

[SDNR]

For me car of the show was the Honda Urban EV. For instances it's coming to production and it showcases finally Honda have stopped doing car designing with Legos. Compared to the Civic with its lego appendages on the front and rear, the Urban is clean and minimalist, also cute and that interior could even see production what with a complete bench seat.

Yeah, it is quite a cute little car.
A Volkswagen Golf Mk1 crossed with an iPhone.

 

[Zafiro]

No love for the Ford GT ?

 

[SCOTT27]

No love for the Ford GT ?

It was there in Lego form.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

It was there in Lego form.

No, it was there in REAL form. There was LEGO racing driver on display. Did you even go Scott?!

 

[SCOTT27]

No, it was there in REAL form. There was LEGO racing driver on display. Did you even go Scott?!

I left Honda and left for Borgward. Ford and Mazda had nothing really to offer. Although they brought every Fiesta and Mazda had colour co-ordinated cars.

 

[klier]

That Honda EV is hoooooottttttt... It looks amazing, and very German. More German than what the Germans make.

It seriously baffles me: VW is coming out with a new Golf soon, based on 1965 tech with some gadgets to wireless charge your phone and some more. VW is going bankrupt if they don't quickly adjust to an electric reality.

No sane person wants a diesel anymore. And absolutely no one should want one from VAG. A diesel is far worse than a gasoline engine, and a gasoline engine already is a passed station in my head. ICE tech is over. Done. Forever. No matter the wonderful engines that are still coming are being made. It's dead tech, at the end of it's 150 year lifecycle.

The Germans continue to fail to grasp this. Including BMW. The next 3er should be at least available as a full EV.

No love for the Ford GT ?

Why would there be any?
That car would have been impressive 30 years ago.

 

[bimmer6]

That Honda EV is hoooooottttttt... It looks amazing, and very German. More German than what the Germans make.

It seriously baffles me: VW is coming out with a new Golf soon, based on 1965 tech with some gadgets to wireless charge your phone and some more. VW is going bankrupt if they don't quickly adjust to an electric reality.

No sane person wants a diesel anymore. And absolutely no one should want one from VAG. A diesel is far worse than a gasoline engine, and a gasoline engine already is a passed station in my head. ICE tech is over. Done. Forever. No matter the wonderful engines that are still coming are being made. It's dead tech, at the end of it's 150 year lifecycle.

The Germans continue to fail to grasp this. Including BMW. The next 3er should be at least available as a full EV.



Why would there be any?
That car would have been impressive 30 years ago.

The diesel is still the best engine for a lot of people who often drive big distances. Its powerful and definitely the most eco-friendly engine on the autobahn/highway. BMW, Mercedes and even VAG proved in several real life tests that their diesel engines can meet the NOX limits. So its stupid to say the diesel is dead and to make everyone change to gasoline, PHEV or electric cars.
Colleagues of my father changed from diesels consuming 6l on the autobahn to hybrids needing 12l, because of political incentives and their company car guideline.

The german carmakers have to shift their focus to ev cars, but right now the diesel is a great engine and will stay superior for at least 6-7 years.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I left Honda and left for Borgward. Ford and Mazda had nothing really to offer. Although they brought every Fiesta and Mazda had colour co-ordinated cars.

What does this have to do with you responding to @Zafiro saying there was a Ford GT in Lego form?

 

[SCOTT27]

Because it was in a case the front of the stand directly across from Mazda. There was nothing at Ford worth stopping for.
I would have had the same reaction if I just went to a Ford dealer.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Because it was in a case the front of the stand directly across from Mazda. There was nothing at Ford worth stopping for.
I would have had the same reaction if I just went to a Ford dealer.

So why did you answer @Zafiro when you didn't even see the stand properly?

By the way, the Lego model was a GT40, not a GT.

 

[Matski]

Why would there be any?

It's pretty much the best looking sports car (in any class) on the market at the moment, In my most humble of opinions.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

It's pretty much the best looking sports car (in any class) on the market at the moment, In my most humble of opinions.

Agreed. I was having a look on Tuesday at it, and I said to my dad, if that had a Ferrari badge on it, it would be hailed as the second coming. Absolutely stunning to look at.

 

[chonkoa]

Oh yeah. One more thing. The BMW X7 Concept isn't as big or as ugly in real life.

I now know who to blame if I get the X7.
I never liked what I saw online but I now have hope.