CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
Remember this idiot?
Today Tesla share surpassed 1500 USD and Musk's net worth is above 70 bln USD.
Today Tesla share surpassed 1500 USD and Musk's net worth is above 70 bln USD.
Discuss Brilliant German CEOs
- Thread starter CrunchSlaughtered
- Start date
To be fair, Muller is not wrong, and comparing a share price, and a personal net worth based on that share price (I assume) is not the same has building a profitable empire selling as many cars as VW do... it's the very apples and pears (?) comparison Muller is saying not to make in the video. Where is the benefit to the product in a $1500 share price or the CEO having a colossal net worth?
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
He was mocking Elon Musk and was full of arrogance. What is an empire? For me is the market capitalisation. So Müller was completely wrong, especially after the capitalization of Tesla is three times that of VAG's. Really comparing apples to pears like Müller said, but having the opposite in mind.
If this is important to you then can you explain where the benefit to you, as a consumer and potential car buyer is, in having a massively inflated market capitalisation?
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
Why do you think it's inflated? You were saying the same when the price was 300 USD. Now it's 5 times more. And the high market capitalization means that no one can buy the company. It also means that if only Musk feels the need to buy Daimler he is able to do it immediately. (VAG and BMW are more secure with their family owned shares).
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
How dare you? You are accusing the company that invented 9 years ago the pattern for the new S class screens. Just look at Tesla now and you will see how Mercedes will make their cars in 9 years (although under Chinese ownership).
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
For the last 4-5 months Tesla did and announced nothing that could lead to the price increase of its shares. The increase is due to the investors realizing, that the Germans will not be able to compete, whatever overpromises they give.
LaArtist
Wunderkind of Wheels
Lol very well call me when tesla makes it through the next 130 years.
2 world wars and all kinds of shit.
D
Deleted member 1071
At least remotely related:
Massive deficits in Germanys' education system, the origins of which to be found in the late 1970s'/early 1980s', has resulted in critical brain drain. Entrenched obsolete structures with the political schmoozing in large German corporations is another dilemma. Middle-tiered companies and a number of innovative start-ups are more prepared to embrace future challenges. The exodus of aspiring top business economists, engineers, technicians, medical doctors, etc. to more rewarding pastures of study and profession overseas is highly problematic. What remains are seas of those who engage in pedogogical, juristical and/or humanistic curriculums. The global rating performance of German universities speaks volumes (hint: Save the LMU and TU in Munich and the TH in Aachen, German universities are nowhere).
Massive deficits in Germanys' education system, the origins of which to be found in the late 1970s'/early 1980s', has resulted in critical brain drain. Entrenched obsolete structures with the political schmoozing in large German corporations is another dilemma. Middle-tiered companies and a number of innovative start-ups are more prepared to embrace future challenges. The exodus of aspiring top business economists, engineers, technicians, medical doctors, etc. to more rewarding pastures of study and profession overseas is highly problematic. What remains are seas of those who engage in pedogogical, juristical and/or humanistic curriculums. The global rating performance of German universities speaks volumes (hint: Save the LMU and TU in Munich and the TH in Aachen, German universities are nowhere).
Because the ratio of share price to revenue, profit or dividend is extremely high for an automotive company, simple as that really. Imagining you bought every single share in the company, what's the value of what you now own, versus what you paid for it, and how does that compare to the industry? Answer, it's very high.
Nobody was trying to buy it when it was low.
In theory, but not practically feasible. Musk's worth is partly made up of Tesla stock, to realise that money he'd be selling his stock in Tesla. He'd literally be doing away with Tesla for the sake of joining Daimler. I also don't believe that it's possible to execute a trade like that in one go, which of course presents issues and barriers to a hostile takeover as soon as the market gets wind of it.
Which investors, for example, have closed their positions on the German Carmakers, and opened them on Tesla? At what point does dividend per share for Tesla overtake that of the german OEM's (considering at the moment, the only way to yield a profit from a Tesla share is to relinquish the asset)? In simple terms, Tesla shares are considered high risk, high return... if that's an "investor" portfolio profile, then fair enough, but I think it's foolish to conflate traders looking for a quick buck with confidence in the German car industry. Have you closed all your positions on BMW, Daimler, Porsche and VW, and invested all the money into Tesla shares now, at 1544/share?
And can you answer my other question? What is the benefit to the product or to the buyer of high market capitalisation?
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
The dividend has zero significance when there is a fluctuation in the price. One must be very stupid to believe that it's better to buy shares for 80 EURO each, then in two years they are worth 40 EURO each and bring 3 EURO dividend, than to buy shares for 300 EURO and in two years (or even 6 months) they are worth 1500 EURO (or USD) and bring zero dividend.
klier
Premium
Your provocations are wearing thin to be honest. Nor do they hold much value.
No it doesn't, it means that you earn from the share without selling the asset and inspite of its share price.
Presumption fallacy... the argument is based on supposition. In actuality the value of either asset could go up or down.
.. and you still haven't answered by question. It seems that at this point your sarcastic thread title is based on a CEO's ability to make money for themselves and share traders, and not to operate a global, money making manufacturing entity.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
What money making? It matters only what you have when you draw the line. So the only money making company from the mentioned here is Tesla. All the rest are losing money, despite having a profit, which is fully shadowed by the waste in market capitalisation.
False. What matters is what you get when you sell in relation to what you paid when you bought.
Okay, so let's suppose that's true, how does that benefit the product or the people buying the product. What can Tesla do with its market capitalisation to benefit anyone that isn't a share trader or share owner? I'm asking a genuine question, if you have a good answer I may well be persuaded to change my stance on all this.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
How does this benefit the buyer? Here is how it does:
when the company is making money by increasing its market capitalization, this is not made on the expense of the customer and in the opposite case, when the company is making money from its operative business it is on the expense of the customers or said with more simple words, a Tesla may cost 32 000 EURO to manufacture as a final product, but the customer is paying 30 000, and in the case of for example BMW 2 GT - it costs 20 000 to be manufactured but the customer is paying the same 30 000. So for the same amount of money (30 000) with the former the customer is getting a product for 32 000 and with the later a product for 20 000 (or even less, because of the dealers fee, that is missing at Tesla). And that is what the Germans can not comprehend, and where they should put more effort. Just a simple example with our favorite company BMW. The new 4er is made 75 kg heavier than the 3er sedan in order to position it higher and to be able to charge the customer more. But a two door coupe should be lighter than its 4 door sibling. So instead of making it a better drivers car, they made it a pork just to get more money. this is a completely wrong decision, not the design, which a like a lot, but the weight.
This is my first question then. How does a company go about making money from market capitalisation? Market capitalisation is literally the value tied up across all your share owners. If I own 100 shares in Tesla that I bought on the open market (i.e. not a share issue), how do they make money from me owning a teeny tiny fraction of their company? How does my asset turn into money in their bank account?
All this is fine if market cap is a revenue stream for the company. Aside from that, what your implying is that a brilliant CEO sells a product for no profit?
Well, this is a discussion possibly more for the G22 thread. It's not like people pay per kilogram when they buy a car so the reason for the weight increase is likely a reflection of something else, and not the cause of it. It's also not the first time a coupe has been heavier than a saloon platform upon which it's based.
edit:
For the most part I'm asking sincere questions here, I know we have members on this site that have far more experience with the stock market than I do, so If I'm missing something please feel free to chip in and explain.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
Again, the profit is in the market capitalization. It is irrelevant to the shareholder whether his profit comes from a dividend or from an increased value of its shares. So he is making profit. Just stop looking only at the dividends. It's the amount of gained money that is important, not the way how it is achieved.
Similar threads
