Whats so special with the turbo engine in X5M?
whats the difference between this engine and the engine in X6 xDrive50i?
what does turbo engine in X5M offer that the competition doesnt have?
what are bmw doing in F1 when N/A engines is no more?
The beauty between a M3 and 330i was the highreeving engine, now with the new Turbos the engines are similar.
BTW -Eni you dont know if the next M5 is getting highreeving turbo engine or not. As far as we know bmw might be experimenting with it and in the end become a reality. We seen it before, highreeving supercharged engines do exist.
I told you: BMW used high-rev to increase the power output at a certain (low) engine displacement. Eg. MB went the other way - by increasing the displacement (and the torque). Two different solutions, same goal.
With increasing RPM, and sticking with lower displacement meant sticking with lower engine weight - since larger engine (done from same materials) is heavier. But such engines were more thirstier. Not a good pedigree for the current times.
Turbo-tech: you can use one large turbo, or two smaller ones. with or without variable turbine systems (eg. TwinScroll).
Be sure BMW will do (and they are doing so) everything to provide engines with as linear power output as possible - and in the end turbo engines will have de facto same linear curve as the NA engines.
Regarding high-rev turbos ... they are not logical nor necessary. Yes, they are possible - with other modifications - like much better intercoolilng systems, better fuel & air injecting systems, stronger engine blocks, super-fast ECU processor etc But that cost a lot, and you only get more rpm, a bit more HP - but that can be done much easily by increasing the boost eg. So, high-rev turbos doesn't make sense at all.
If you miss the sound - the sound can be pitched with some audio engineering. And you get the turbe screaming like high-rev NA engine.
On the other hand - yes, superchargered engines can be high-rev. It's easier (thermodynamicly) to execute that. But it still doesn't make sense.
Since the point of introducing supercharger / turbocharger is to have more torque available ffom the smaller displacement - so you can avoid higher RPMs.
chonkoa said:
You can still have a High rev engine with Turbos...It just requires some reprogamming.
The hardware cost is zero long as there is a waste gate, the software cost is a few codes.
I'm not sure it's that easy to eg. increase turbo max rpm from 7,000 to 8,200. OK, it's possible if the engine & peripherals systems (eg. cooling) are built with reserve. But the question is how long the hardware would run under such extreme conditions flawlessly. IMO everything should be designed to fit high-rev, so cracking ECU is not a good solution at all. Not to mention all the car systems today are connected in some holistic loop - so changing ECU settings would also requires a change of other settings as well (gearbox, ABS, DSC etc).
HighestOfHigh said:
On the other hand I blame BMW. They have allowed their "fans" to believe in such a philosophy that would actually produce this type of Behavior.
Yes, that's absolutely true. The marketing, and the propaganda behind was a bit too eager - since they had to convince people why high-rev & NA is so much better. And they did that extremely well. A bit too well IMO.
It wasn't so much about philosophy but about a certain tech & body shapes. Nobody can say "we will never use turbos" - since as you can see times can change rapidly, new values & regulations kick in, and you are forced to use once "blasphemous" tech & solutions.
Same goes for the body shapes: if there is a much bigger demand for eg. X5 M than for eg. Z4 M - then it's logical to make an X5 M instead of Z4 M. Customer preferences do change, and sticking to some philosophy that doesn't work anymore - it's counterproductive IMO.
IMO sure in the constant conditions (without all that gas emission & fuel consumption green fever) BMW would never introduced turbos.
But now they have no choice - they are to big, but not big enough to defy the trends.
Porsche - as said - is a different position. Since it's a mere sports brand - much more sport performance defined than BMW. Porsche is all about sports cars - and they can't compromise. But BMW do not compete directly with Porsche but more with MB, Audi etc. People see BMW as a MB rival, not Porsche rival. There's no money in rivaling Porsche right now - Porsche is too specific & too niche - so they had to find a shelter in the Volkswagen Group to survive, geez.
Yes, even BMW could go similar way - or Jaguar or AM way - becoming a specialized niche relatively low-volume brand. But in this case it would have to find a rich daddy - either a bigger company, or some Arab sheik. Not to mention thousands of people would be fired, and many factories closed etc. And nobody want that.
BMW is the #1 selling premium brand in the world. They have to follow the trends & address customer demand. And that means the hard core fans of (older) raw BMW cars will be even more & more disappointed in the future. So they will have to switch to some more exotic brands, or stick with older cars. Since all the other BMW competitors are going the same way as BMW go. The rules are here for all.
Regarding MB ... SLS etc and similar vanity projects are children of the past - which now backfire heavily. MB is losing money by a speed of light. Be sure they will decrease R&D & marketing expenditures for such projects in the future. Is there a market for SLS? Of course it is - since it's a limited / very low volume car. But be sure the car is not generating profits at all. The are making it for fun - and the new investors (the Arabs) aren't happy with such games anymore. Same case in VW / Porsche case. Today no investor does tolerate some ego-maniacs playing with other people's money. Such times are over.
Yes, perhaps the soul is not as sharp & as specific as it was in the past. But that doesn't mean it isn't there anymore. Perhpas with less character - but if that's a price for surviving, I'm more than ready to pay it.
What would you rather see: a generation of super-exciting vanity cars, and then the company go to bankrupt, no more cars at all from that brand ... or some more "moderate" products but being there constantly.
And don't come out now with Porsche, Audi, Lexus etc - since they are not in the same position as BMW. Yes, MB is - but are you sure MB is dong it right? If you do, check their latest financial numbers. And forget about Chrysler, EADS, truck/bus divisions - concentrate on car division only. They are not doing well at all. Perhaps too much vanity projects, and not enough competitive green solutions in regular cars?
