Concept [Official] BMW Vision Next 100

[Mick Briesgau]

Some companies are developing techniques nobody asked for, beyond customers wishes. As are some NGO facilitating and demanding developments no one wants. Or is any of you guys/ladies asked for your opinion on this matter (autonomous driving)?

 

[SDNR]

Some companies are developing techniques nobody asked for, beyond customers wishes. As are some NGO facilitating and demanding developments no one wants. Or is any of you guys/ladies asked for your opinion on this matter (autonomous driving)?

We in the Western world are being taken over by Progressive Technocrats who do not believe in Democracy. It is a very Platonian form of governance, much like Facism: government works closely with corporates and financial institutions to 'manage' the world and its people.

In the 1960s Zbigniew Brzezinski (former White House advisor) wrote a very interesting thesis called Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era.

From Wikipedia
In his 1970 piece Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era, Brzezinski argued that a coordinated policy among developed nations was necessary in order to counter global instability erupting from increasing economic inequality. Out of this thesis, Brzezinski co-founded the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller, serving as director from 1973 to 1976. The Trilateral Commission is a group of prominent political and business leaders and academics primarily from the United States, Western Europe and Japan. Its purpose was to strengthen relations among the three most industrially advanced regions of the capitalist world.

Other organisations like The Club Of Rome (whose members include scientists, bankers, and prominent industrialists) have been extremely influential in their call for Global resource management .....which led to the 1992 United Nations Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro.

 

[martinbo]

Let's not over-politicise this thread. I'll re-direct by saying:

BMW's Centenary: let's not look back on 100 years of freedom but rather toward the next 100 of regulation.

 

[klier]

Some companies are developing techniques nobody asked for, beyond customers wishes. As are some NGO facilitating and demanding developments no one wants. Or is any of you guys/ladies asked for your opinion on this matter (autonomous driving)?

No, but did they ask our opinion when they were developing the Internet at CERN? We really didn't need such a thing back then.

 

[SDNR]

Let's not over-politicise this thread. I'll re-direct by saying:

BMW's Centenary: let's not look back on 100 years of freedom but rather toward the next 100 of regulation.

Sometimes it does feel like that. I didn't mean to get political .....but this general feeling of control freakery, increased surveillance, inequality, and the often negative social effects of Globalization and new technologies, could have the unfortunate consequence of giving rise to violent extremes on the political Left and Right.

Delete this post if you feel it's sailing to close to the wind

 

[Mick Briesgau]

No, but did they ask our opinion when they were developing the Internet at CERN? We really didn't need such a thing back then.

That's not the point. I'm free to choose, participating in the Internet or not. With this autonomous cars coming, in a few decades we aren't free to choose, but forced to let us drive by autonomous cars or even worse: public transport only. Because individual transport in general and cars in particular, by then will be seen by some as non-merit goods. Even now, some political parties are advocating this nonsense.

PS Mods, if too political, feel free to remove.

 

[Matski]

or even worse: public transport only. Because individual transport in general and cars in particular, by then will be seen by some as non-merit goods.

I guess personal ownership of cars could one day largely be replaced by autonomous taxis, but mass transit simply isn't that effective outside of big cities.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Yes and imo that's also a form of non-indivual, public transport.

 

[SDNR]

I guess personal ownership of cars could one day largely be replaced by autonomous taxis, but mass transit simply isn't that effective outside of big cities.

I think you are right. In smaller towns and rural areas, where off-road vehicles may be necessary, non-autonomous vehicles will still have a place.

However, there is a big effort underway to bring more people into cities (smart cities) where building codes are being changed to allow intensification of housing.

Here is an example of what a future Smart City would be like:

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[Matski]

I think you are right. In smaller towns and rural areas, where off-road vehicles may be necessary, non-autonomous vehicles will still have a place.

I'd tend to agree, but harsh terrain autonomous vehicles do already exist. This is a Top Gear video of a test featuring the 'TerraMax' in Nevada, and autonomous off-road military vehicle.

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... this is where I see what Scott and Enl are saying about the need for software engineers... it's not hard these days to build on off-road car, but building one that can off-road for itself... needs nerds!

However, there is a big effort underway to bring more people into cities (smart cities) where building codes are being changed to allow intensification of housing.

Here is an example of what a future Smart City would be like:

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I'm not sure if I'm sad I'll never see the furture, or if I'm glad I'll never have to live through it.

 

[klier]

That's not the point. I'm free to choose, participating in the Internet or not

You think you are, but you are really not. Can you do your work without it? I doubt it
I can't do anything without internet, professionally.

However, there is a big effort underway to bring more people into cities (smart cities) where building codes are being changed to allow intensification of housing.

In 100 years the whole world population will be living in smart mega cities.

 

[DblPen]

I think some of you guys are missing the point, this concept wasnt for car guys like us, it was for general public, who probably wants autonomous driving, not everyone likes to drive like us, many people use chauffers, use public transport or use bikes, some are scared of driving, some are lazy, some just want to get from A to B, and maybe relax and rest during the trip. Autonomous vehicles ARE the future, any company would stupid to reject this, if BMW or Merc would do this, they would end up like Nokia probably. Now if this concept deserves 100 year anniversary, probably not, but we can only see the result of it in the future. But we shouldnt be angry at this or upset, car fans are a huge community, and there will always be a market for drivers cars, its a lot worse for truck, taxi or public transport drivers, they might extinct.

 

[SCOTT27]

Masdar City is a reality, it actually exists.

I think you are right. In smaller towns and rural areas, where off-road vehicles may be necessary, non-autonomous vehicles will still have a place.

However, there is a big effort underway to bring more people into cities (smart cities) where building codes are being changed to allow intensification of housing.

Here is an example of what a future Smart City would be like:

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[SDNR]

I think some of you guys are missing the point, this concept wasnt for car guys like us, it was for general public, who probably wants autonomous driving, not everyone likes to drive like us, many people use chauffers, use public transport or use bikes, some are scared of driving, some are lazy, some just want to get from A to B, and maybe relax and rest during the trip. Autonomous vehicles ARE the future, any company would stupid to reject this, if BMW or Merc would do this, they would end up like Nokia probably. Now if this concept deserves 100 year anniversary, probably not, but we can only see the result of it in the future. But we shouldnt be angry at this or upset, car fans are a huge community, and there will always be a market for drivers cars, its a lot worse for truck, taxi or public transport drivers, they might extinct.

Oh no, I don't think we are missing the point

You are right, many people will prefer autonomous vehicles (I don't have any problems with them either) but with the politicisation of sustainable development private vehicle ownership will come under increasing pressure .....already city councils around the world are obsessed with 'livable cities' with an emphasis placed on pedestrians, light rail, cycle lanes, etc.

They will gently nudge you out of your car by making it increasingly inconvenient to own one: fewer parking areas, changing central city streets to pedestrian only traffic, surcharges to enter high-density urban areas, high taxation on privately owned vehicles, and eventually some areas may in fact ban human-driven cars altogether.

Basically, they'll annoy you untill you give up your vehicle ......they'll do the same thing for pet ownership no doubt

I'm all for sustainable development, we need to be more responsible with resources and do our best to limit the damage we do to the environment. My problem is with the undemocratic and often dictatorial way sustainability is being forced on all of us. My faith lies with engineers, scientists, and designers ....rather than with politicians, city planners, and beaurocrats.

 

[SDNR]

Masdar City is a reality, it actually exists.

Yes. I was showing it as a model for future cities around the world.

It is fantastic .....but it has no soul .....no culture. Think of cities like London, Amsterdam, New Orleans, Vienna ......they are wonderful because they have a strong identity and culture that the citizens themselves have created over time. City planners with all their clever technology and ideas forget that we are human beings and we tend to be happier when we are not being micro-managed .....no matter how efficient or high-tech the environment is.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

For some reason, this future city model makes me think of "Soylent Green"

 

[Deleted member 25]

No, but did they ask our opinion when they were developing the Internet at CERN? We really didn't need such a thing back then.

You mean DARPA ?

 

[SCOTT27]

Yes. I was showing it as a model for future cities around the world.

It is fantastic .....but it has no soul .....no culture. Think of cities like London, Amsterdam, New Orleans, Vienna ......they are wonderful because they have a strong identity and culture that the citizens themselves have created over time. City planners with all their clever technology and ideas forget that we are human beings and we tend to be happier when we are not being micro-managed .....no matter how efficient or high-tech the environment is.

Masdar is looking a bit like Dubai, built with money for money, the city for the exclusive,exclusive, hence the approach to high end boutique malls and restaurants but nothing much really else to offer.

 

[klier]

You mean DARPA ?

No I meant CERN. Europeans will say internet comes from Europe.

DARPA is amazing though, don't get me wrong.

 

[DblPen]

Oh no, I don't think we are missing the point

You are right, many people will prefer autonomous vehicles (I don't have any problems with them either) but with the politicisation of sustainable development private vehicle ownership will come under increasing pressure .....already city councils around the world are obsessed with 'livable cities' with an emphasis placed on pedestrians, light rail, cycle lanes, etc.

They will gently nudge you out of your car by making it increasingly inconvenient to own one: fewer parking areas, changing central city streets to pedestrian only traffic, surcharges to enter high-density urban areas, high taxation on privately owned vehicles, and eventually some areas may in fact ban human-driven cars altogether.

Basically, they'll annoy you untill you give up your vehicle ......they'll do the same thing for pet ownership no doubt

I'm all for sustainable development, we need to be more responsible with resources and do our best to limit the damage we do to the environment. My problem is with the undemocratic and often dictatorial way sustainability is being forced on all of us. My faith lies with engineers, scientists, and designers ....rather than with politicians, city planners, and beaurocrats.

Yes, but if that makes city centers less polluted, maybe its worth it, its not really a big pleasure driving in crowded city centers.