Concept [Official] BMW Vision Next 100

[nikola1984]

Actually, this is a debate of very high quality and with very interesting arguments.

Please, don't try to lower the lever and derail the conversation with such cheap shots.

Story about the anniversary.We expected "z" concept,x7 concept,i8s,maybe some super car. We got:

X7come in the year 2019,9er 2020 (question mark).
BMW- 2gt,2at,fwd,three cylinders(express presented).Mercedes-g class,amg gt,maybach,gls,sl.Audi has a super sport car.BMW is the minimum premium.Unfortunately.

 

[SCOTT27]

I made it clear enough that there would not be a super sports car for the 100th Anniversary. That is too easy and it does not give an ounce of your intentions for the future.
The Next 100 is the perfect vision for the future especially at this moment we should be looking ahead,not at the present and certainly not at the past. Celebrate your past of course but look forward.

There is additional events upcoming which will show further intentions for BMW Group as well as production car launches and the Annual Villa D'Este.

The Next 100 is very similar to the Vision EfficientDynamics. A vision to show how sustainability could look and with around years it was on the market as the more realistic i8.
Autonomy is not a reality as of yet, like sustainable mobility it needs infrastructure. Given the advances in automotive technology today we will be here sooner than later. We are on the edge of Electric mobility having seen where we were indeed 5 years ago. An autonomous BMW again in theory could introduce another sub-brand and another design phillosophy.

Vision Next 100 brings the same message as Vision EfficientDynamics -it is coming...

 

[mdartisian]

Technology makes life easier. Millennials love technology cause it's made life easier. As technology increases, things become more efficient and easy that's why in the case of music, cassette tapes were replaced by CD's which were replaced by digital downloads, and then Spotify happened. The whole robotic reality has always served to represent the future but has not manifested as present day reality.

So my ideas regarding the world of autonomous vehicle transportation is this: There will be two types of roads. One with the driver behind the wheel and another specifically for autonomous vehicles... Or certain roads will be permitted for autonomous driving and at the end of that section of road, legally, the driver has to operate the vehicle... So instead of cars operating like human beings, they will need to meet certain criteria to operate on autonomous roads. Cars will behave like trolleys. Basically the structure of transportation regarding vehicles will alter to make life easier for everyone. Just a thought.

 

[nikola1984]

Scott,talk a lot about the future. A little doing in the present.
"I made it clear enough that there would not be a super sports car for the 100th Anniversary. That is too easy and it does not give an ounce of your intentions for the future."Yes,yes...
Mercedes:slr,sls,amg gt. Audi 2 generation r8. BMW?

 

[SDNR]

@Martin



@Rob

It's not about New Order and / or any other semi-conspiracy theory. It's not that anybody is pushing the tech and the solutions. It's all market driven. Not by the current market but the future one. And future markets (especially the demand side) is very analytically & thoroughly researched via various consumer behavior researches etc. And so is trend detection. Trend hunting is blooming. And by gathering such info the industry is motivated to supply & provide certain tech & product to the FUTURE customers.
When only researching & analyzing current market situation (especially the demand) you don't get such data. It's all about trends.

I wasn't talking about conspiracy theories .....I was referring to discussions held at The World Economic Forum (in January) on the way autonomous vehicles could help transform cities; or how the United Nations sees the potential for autonomous vehicles as part of their Habitat III initiatives; and how the international city council organisation ICLEI are helping cities around the world find alternatives to private vehicle ownership.

I shouldn't have used the term New Economic Order because it is too often met with dismissal.

 

[Giannis]

@EnI

The turn of BMW's marketing (and focus) is evident already. Go to a dealership and ask to see an X1. They will bombard you with how nice it looks outside your house, how progressive the shape is, how efficient the diesels are and how SAVs and urban crossovers are the shape of the future, while showing you what you can do with an iPhone and a sDrive20d X1 instead of drive it.

Ask them how the AWD system works or which is the typical oil consumption of the said engine and they look at you as if you are an alien.

Back in the last days of the E46 when I went into the local BMW showroom and ask about the lower end of the 3er engines line-up, all that was said was how it's better to drive than anything in the class, the fact that no competitor offered Nappa leather and that it was RWD and therefore, fun.

IT has already changed cars quite significantly. Screens have altered the typical dashboard layout quite a lot and unless you know you ways around a smartphone or tablet, you won't be able to get into a car unknown to you, drive off and fiddle with anything without help. Also, because electronics change and get better (and obsolete) quite fast, your brand new car will feel old the moment a higher resolution iPhone is announced.

What I see is that the ICE will not die that easily and it will not be phased out that fast. There is still too much innovation, too many new ideas waiting to be tested, to many things to alter, improve and rething, too many variables yet to be modelled.

What I see is that truly amazing engineering is underappreciated, because all (most) people care about is the GUI.

 

[SCOTT27]

Especially for workers of BMW Munchen. We have been manipulated for the purposes of BMW Marketing.

????

 

[SDNR]

@EnI

The turn of BMW's marketing (and focus) is evident already. Go to a dealership and ask to see an X1. They will bombard you with how nice it looks outside your house, how progressive the shape is, how efficient the diesels are and how SAVs and urban crossovers are the shape of the future, while showing you what you can do with an iPhone and a sDrive20d X1 instead of drive it.

Ask them how the AWD system works or which is the typical oil consumption of the said engine and they look at you as if you are an alien.

Back in the last days of the E46 when I went into the local BMW showroom and ask about the lower end of the 3er engines line-up, all that was said was how it's better to drive than anything in the class, the fact that no competitor offered Nappa leather and that it was RWD and therefore, fun.

IT has already changed cars quite significantly. Screens have altered the typical dashboard layout quite a lot and unless you know you ways around a smartphone or tablet, you won't be able to get into a car unknown to you, drive off and fiddle with anything without help. Also, because electronics change and get better (and obsolete) quite fast, your brand new car will feel old the moment a higher resolution iPhone is announced.

What I see is that the ICE will not die that easily and it will not be phased out that fast. There is still too much innovation, too many new ideas waiting to be tested, to many things to alter, improve and rething, too many variables yet to be modelled.

What I see is that truly amazing engineering is underappreciated, because all (most) people care about is the GUI.

The thing is, as the world increasingly embraces Smart techologies, the ability to monitor all of our consumption of resources will eventually mean it will be possible to give each individual an "allowance" (like a personal carbon credit system) ....and charge a penalty for exceeding the limit. The ICE may not be so attractive under such circumstances.

It may sound crazy ......but ideas like this are being discussed.

I think too many people are so focussed on the technology itself that they are missing some very real social and political ramifications it will bring.

 

[Deleted member 25]

It's not crazy, that's the direction the world is taking.

 

[SCOTT27]

I admire your honesty and intelligent discussion.
Which we should be able to debate. The Automotive industry is already heavily politicised. Therefore you are not just restricted by one agenda but multiple from legislation,emissions,manufacturing even to where you intend to manufacture and so on. Autonomous driving will also be politicised also.
These topics do need to be debated without fear or prejudice like anything else affecting the global population

 

[EnI]

We live in an overpopulated world. Too much people, too much pollution, too much chaos etc. Since clean air is not a given thing - but something that has to be preserved by humans , it's natural to set limitations. Otherwise we will poison the human race to death. Or at least the ones in overpopulated congested urban areas. Socioeconomic effects are inevitable.

I see new tech as a solution not as an obstacle or as a threat.

I can sense some technofobia going on here. Right?

 

[EnI]

Especially for workers of BMW Munchen. We have been manipulated for the purposes of BMW Marketing.

I agree the event as such was a fail: unimaginative & a cliche. A classic German "corporate event" with horrible scenario, story, direction, moderation ... lacking coherence & dynamics. Oozing amateurism.

If you were manipulated, I was ashamed by the event.

But in general I very much support the idea of using the 100th birthday to communicate the future - the next 100 years. Not the past 100 years, and also not the next 10 upcoming years. Concepts of the upcoming cars like X7 etc will be presented at regular car show events etc.

 

[Rainer271]

Concepts of the upcoming cars like X7 etc will be presented at regular car show events etc.

Sorry for OT: Is it possible to get a hint when approximate we can expect a X7 Concept?

 

[SDNR]

We live in an overpopulated world. Too much people, too much pollution, too much chaos etc. Since clean air is not a given thing - but something that has to be preserved by humans , it's natural to set limitations. Otherwise we will poison the human race to death. Or at least the ones in overpopulated congested urban areas. Socioeconomic effects are inevitable.

I see new tech as a solution not as an obstacle or as a threat.

I can sense some technofobia going on here. Right?

No no ......certainly not from me anyway.

It's not the technology that concerns me, it's the way it can be (and in many cases is) used in ways that breach our privacy, liberties, and basic human rights.

I agree with you that we must become a more sustainable civilisation ......we cannot just keep consuming the world's resources without any concern for future generations.

There is no doubt about it, society (especially Western society) has become extremely wasteful, nihilistic, and obscenely materialistic .....which are symptoms of mass sociopsychosis than anything else. However, I object to the elitist attitude that the vast majority of people are too stupid to make ethical and sensible decisions themselves .....and that we must have some kind of benign Global dictatorship to save us from ourselves.

We need a cultural change ......but individual freedom must be respected otherwise we could be entering a very oppressive new era.

 

[EnI]

@Rob

Privacy? The Millennials have none whatsoever. Constantly posting / transmitting their location, pics & videos from their private lives, and even posting pics & videos of their private parts. Etc they are not as concerned about privacy as we are. To them privacy is not a liberty. There's nothing to protect. It's all public. It's all on display. Tits, cocks, butts, birthday parties, fun on the beach, newborns, food they eat, places they visit ... and selfie galore etc. A circus! A freak show!

Privacy today? With Google & Apple? There's none! And NSA and other agencies tapping wires ... Endless number of CCTV cameras everywhere. Traffic cameras. Drones flying over our heads.

Our privacy is GONE. All we got is an imaginary privacy. A phantom. A belief. Not a reality.

Have you ever read the terms & policies you sign for when starting using some common services & apps etc? It's all there - you agree to waive your right to privacy. They know where you are & where you go, what you browse, what you write in your text massages, what videos do you watch, what music do you listen, what do you buy etc. It's all on display, it's all recorded. You are being constantly profiled. Something only police or an intelligence agency or a secret service could only do - police only via a court order ... now Google, Microsoft & Apple etc do. With our agreement. It's not something that was forced upon us ... it was our choice, our free will. We checked the box to agree with the terms & policies. Nobody forced us. We have free-willing given up our privacy for some hi-tech glitter & for some extra convenience.

Who is to blame? Perhaps people are just not as smart as you think they are. Can they really make smart decisions for themselves? Or perhaps are they lured too easily to sell heir souls & lives to the devil? Being stupid or weak? It has to be something ... Or perhaps both.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

No no ......certainly not from me anyway.

It's not the technology that concerns me, it's the way it can be (and in many cases is) used in ways that breach our privacy, liberties, and basic human rights.

I agree with you that we must become a more sustainable civilisation ......we cannot just keep consuming the world's resources without any concern for future generations.

There is no doubt about it, society (especially Western society) has become extremely wasteful, nihilistic, and obscenely materialistic .....which are symptoms of mass sociopsychosis than anything else. However, I object to the elitist attitude that the vast majority of people are too stupid to make ethical and sensible decisions themselves .....and that we must have some kind of benign Global dictatorship to save us from ourselves.

We need a cultural change ......but individual freedom must be respected otherwise we could be entering a very oppressive new era.

Very well spoken, @SDNR. At discussions like these I wish I was a native speaker (english).

 

[LaArtist]

There is no law that prohibits 1,2,3 or 10 concept/production cars when celebrating 100 years.

Let that sink in.

The limit is set by your imagination, will and wallet.

Wallet they have and a fat one at that.
Will im sure the employees would love the chance.
Imagination im again sure the staff at BMW have plenty of that.

So one wonders where it goes south, my guess is the board.

 

[EnI]

@Rob

People are constantly & historically voting for (more) oppression. Quite some oppressive / authoritarian regimes were elected via democratic elections. Willingly. All for consolidation, unification, collectivization. All to strengthen the society. So they thought. Smart people? Hardly. It's not that oppression comes from revolutions & coups only. It can be elected.

What "we the people" (aka the humans aka the folk) certainly do not lack is a sense for self-destruction.

As Einstein has said: human stupidity certainly is infinite.

So, sometimes it's good to put people on a leash to protect hem from themselves. Like a guardian angel or a good Samaritan.

Yes, some people are smart ... But the average is just ... average. And the cumulative stupidity outdoes all the smartness.

Is street smart really smart? Is common sense still (a) sense?

 

[Giannis]

People are constantly & historically voting for (more) oppression. Quite some oppressive / authoritarian regimes were elected via democratic elections. Willingly. All for consolidation, unification, collectivization. All to strengthen the society. So they thought. Smart people? Hardly. It's not that oppression comes from revolutions & coups only. It can be elected.

That's not even half the story.

What "we the people" (aka the humans aka the folk) certainly do not lack is a sense for self-destruction.

No. But people, the masses in general, tend to pick the least worst scenario thinking only short term, or when individualism conquers over collectivity. I am sure that you know that there are more than enough ways for this to happen in our "modern" society.

And who benefits most by that?

So, sometimes it's good to put people on a leash to protect hem from themselves. Like a guardian angel or a good Samaritan.

I wonder how many oppressive/ authoritarian regimes started that way.

Is street smart really smart? Is common sense still (a) sense?

To answer your rhetorical questions in the spirit of the times, are refugees from Syria and other war-stricken countries equal to other European citizens? Aren't we all refugees?

 

[EnI]

No, Giannis. We are not all refugees, we are not all Charlie Hebdo, we are not all Ai Weiwei, we are not all Mahatma Gandhi, we are not all Malala Yousafzai, we are not The Folk ... We are not Borg. We are not all equal. Never have been, never will be. Believing in equality is a religion. Just like believing in good. All you can is to believe ... since the cruel reality demonstrates that there's no such thing as prevalence of equality or prevalence of good. Humane nature also features a great amount of inequality & evil.

So, it's not all about smart vs stupid, but it's also good vs evil, inclusive vs exclusive, equal vs different / unequal etc. But most often it boils down to sheer perspective: what is good and what is evil; what is smart and what is stupid; what is moral & what immoral. It's all about systems of values we operate in.

And that will also be a challenge when it comes to new tech - eg. autonomous driving. Since I doubt there is something as general as global system of values. Will we have different collision algorithms for different regions?

There's going to be an epic philosophical & humanistic debate about ethics in autonomous driving. And I doubt it will be a global debate.