Gone off track Spillover from the Porsche Taycan thread - Sporty vs Sports car

[Big Sam]

No sane person is going to buy a second hand first gen Taycan.

And no sane person is going to buy a Taycan and not expect to suffer depreciation. Luckily it's not something I need to worry about.

I buy the cars I want to own. Period. I made money on my G80 M3, and I'll lose money on my Taycan, just like pretty much every other car I've owned. The depreciation on my first Taycan and now my GTS is perfectly reasonable. There are just 12 GTS Sport Turismos on sale in the Netherlands from official dealers and values seem to be holding up well. The UK market is something different, which is the point I was making to FastPaddy.

It's dead and only the Lord knows what is going to happen with these 100+ Euro EV cars that rapidly become worthless. It's not like they can ship them to Africa or the Middle East like they used to do.
So, vast depreciation and sky high insurance. Yeah, that's going to work. What a clusterf#ck of a mess.

You seem to know a lot about insurance costs of EVs. How much do I pay, then?

Do cars not depreciate outside of the UK then?

Why are you now saying "depreciate" when I was replying to you saying "colossal depreciation"?

Maybe you just take it personal because you own a obsolete tech taycan

Yeah, I have an R8 V10 in the garage, and my commuting car is a Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, and yet I'm somehow unhappy?

I'm not taking anything personally. I pointed out your myopic viewpoint and other factually incorrect statements, and you appear to be very angry about that, even though you don't own a Porsche Taycan, or indeed ANY electric vehicle. I've no idea why you're getting so upset or investing in this discussion at all.

In the meantime, I can't wait for the updated GTS to be launched so I can order one. It's the best car I've ever owned. It's a superb family car and sports car combined, and the prospect of having even more range is very exciting.

 

[Fastpaddy]

And no sane person is going to buy a Taycan and not expect to suffer depreciation. Luckily it's not something I need to worry about.

I buy the cars I want to own. Period. I made money on my G80 M3, and I'll lose money on my Taycan, just like pretty much every other car I've owned. The depreciation on my first Taycan and now my GTS is perfectly reasonable. There are just 12 GTS Sport Turismos on sale in the Netherlands from official dealers and values seem to be holding up well. The UK market is something different, which is the point I was making to FastPaddy.




You seem to know a lot about insurance costs of EVs. How much do I pay, then?





Why are you now saying "depreciate" when I was replying to you saying "colossal depreciation"?





Yeah, I have an R8 V10 in the garage, and my commuting car is a Taycan GTS Sport Turismo, and yet I'm somehow unhappy?

I'm not taking anything personally. I pointed out your myopic viewpoint and other factually incorrect statements, and you appear to be very angry about that, even though you don't own a Porsche Taycan, or indeed ANY electric vehicle. I've no idea why you're getting so upset or investing in this discussion at all.

In the meantime, I can't wait for the updated GTS to be launched so I can order one. It's the best car I've ever owned. It's a superb family car and sports car combined, and the prospect of having even more range is very exciting.

Taycan a sports car hahahah

That tells me all I need to know about you.

Show and shine guy.

Sports car LOL

 

[martinbo]

Taycan a sports car hahahah

That tells me all I need to know about you.

Show and shine guy.

Sports car LOL

To be fair, Paddy, he does state this - which you've elected to gloss over:

t's a superb family car and sports car combined

Which by implication is to mean that it's neither outright but rather something that sits in-between.

 

[Fastpaddy]

To be fair, Paddy, he does state this - which you've elected to gloss over:


Which by implication is to mean that it's neither outright but rather something that sits in-between.

If he said ferrari FF, fair enough, but theres NOTHING sportscar about something that weighs more than two A110. A whole 2300kg unladen. Thats landyacht status. And no one calls a AMG GT63 4 door or a rs6 a “sportscar”, Its making a mockery of what a sportscar is in the same vein as a man calling himself a woman because hes on testosterone blockers

Otherwise we may aswell call anything with over 300hp a sportscar at that point.

 

[Big Sam]

Taycan a sports car hahahah

That tells me all I need to know about you.

Show and shine guy.

Sports car LOL

Again, you're deliberately twisting what I wrote, ignoring the fact I said "family car and sports car", and just like you ignored the word "colossal" in the context of a discussion about depreciation. It's perfectly clear what was meant. On top of that, "sports car" means so many different things to different people that it's a pointless discusson to say "X" isn't a sports car. A car with the performance of the Taycan GTS, with more steering feel than most other cars I've driven, Rear Axle Steering, is quite clearly "sporty". The fact that I can take two adults, two children, and all the gubbins and paraphernalia having a young family involves, whilst also costing less than 9p per km to "fuel", is the icing on the cake.

You seem very angry about something that has no impact on you. I've no idea why you're wasting your energy.

To be fair, Paddy, he does state this - which you've elected to gloss over:


Which by implication is to mean that it's neither outright but rather something that sits in-between.

Thanks Martin. Exactly the point I was intending to make when I quite deliberately phrased it in the way I did.

 

[Big Sam]

If he said ferrari FF, fair enough, but theres NOTHING sportscar about something that weighs more than two A110. A whole 2300kg unladen. Thats landyacht status. And no one calls a AMG GT63 4 door or a rs6 a “sportscar”, Its making a mockery of what a sportscar is in the same vein as a man calling himself a woman because hes on testosterone blockers

Otherwise we may aswell call anything with over 300hp a sportscar at that point.

As Martin has pointed out, he correctly understood what was written, yet you're still deliberately being the strawman and discussing something that hasn't been said. Saying "its a family car and a sports car combined" is not the same as saying it's a "family car and a sports car". The former implies it's a combination of both without being either explicitly, whereas the latter suggests it is both of those things without exception.

As for the FF, it's just under two tonnes to EU standard, has the same official performance figures as the Taycan GTS, is 4WD, and is also a four seater with room for luggage. They're not that different as a concept beyond the power source, and the fact that the weight in the Taycan is much lower down to the extent it feels nothing like its weight on paper. I would say the same thing about an FF as I would about the Taycan GTS; it's a family car and a sports car combined.

 

[Fastpaddy]

As Martin has pointed out, he correctly understood what was written, yet you're still deliberately being the strawman and discussing something that hasn't been said. Saying "its a family car and a sports car combined" is not the same as saying it's a "family car and a sports car". The former implies it's a combination of both without being either explicitly, whereas the latter suggests it is both of those things without exception.

As for the FF, it's just under two tonnes to EU standard, has the same official performance figures as the Taycan GTS, is 4WD, and is also a four seater with room for luggage. They're not that different as a concept beyond the power source, and the fact that the weight in the Taycan is much lower down to the extent it feels nothing like its weight on paper. I would say the same thing about an FF as I would about the Taycan GTS; it's a family car and a sports car combined.

A taycan doesnt look like a sportscar
Its not emotive like a sportcars
It weighs too much to be a sportscar
It doesnt sound like a sportscar
Its not bought by people who want a sportscar.

A m3 m5 is more sportscar than a taycan.
Doesnt anyone say, hey, come look at my sportscar? No. Because they are a sports saloon.

I like to use the nurburgring tourist driving as a yardstick as what makes a good sportscar.

If the car is good and enjoyable to drive, you will see plenty of them at the racetrack.

Do we see taycans? No we dont.

Its a overweight family vehicle that just so happens to have a porsche badge, and is used by the majority of people to get from A - B usually on a commute or to the shops.

No one wakes up at 5am on a sunday morning to go on a countryside blast with their fellow sportscar club friends.

The taycan is just a paper ticking, top trumps exercise for those who dont really care about the driving experience. Its got too much power at the detriment of its own efficiency and “green” credentials, because car manufacturers cannot figure out another way to try and make these cars appealing than giving them copious amounts of power and saying wowzers, it does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. Which again most people who buy sportscars dont care about.

And the fact you have all these practical snooze fest vehicles already and then have a r8 v10 which is only beaten in the snooze fest contest in its particular class by a 911 turbo says enough about you to me, to what you look for in a car. And driving pleasure clearly isnt top of the list

 

[KiwiRob]

A taycan doesnt look like a sportscar
Its not emotive like a sportcars
It weighs too much to be a sportscar
It doesnt sound like a sportscar
Its not bought by people who want a sportscar.

A m3 m5 is more sportscar than a taycan.
Doesnt anyone say, hey, come look at my sportscar? No. Because they are a sports saloon.

I like to use the nurburgring tourist driving as a yardstick as what makes a good sportscar.

If the car is good and enjoyable to drive, you will see plenty of them at the racetrack.

Do we see taycans? No we dont.

Its a overweight family vehicle that just so happens to have a porsche badge, and is used by the majority of people to get from A - B usually on a commute or to the shops.

No one wakes up at 5am on a sunday morning to go on a countryside blast with their fellow sportscar club friends.

The taycan is just a paper ticking, top trumps exercise for those who dont really care about the driving experience. Its got too much power at the detriment of its own efficiency and “green” credentials, because car manufacturers cannot figure out another way to try and make these cars appealing than giving them copious amounts of power and saying wowzers, it does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. Which again most people who buy sportscars dont care about.

And the fact you have all these practical snooze fest vehicles already and then have a r8 v10 which is only beaten in the snooze fest contest in its particular class by a 911 turbo says enough about you to me, to what you look for in a car. And driving pleasure clearly isnt top of the list

what does a sports car sound like?
what does a sports car look like? If a Taycan isn't a sporting car neither is a Ferrari FF, I would consider them both GTs
how much is a sports car supposed to weight, is there an official limit??
how do you define what sort of people want a sports car and what the definition of a sports car is to those people who want to buy one???
if you consider an M5 to be a sports car then so is the RS6, AMG GT, E63, Cadillac Black Wing, Porsche Panamerica and the Taycan and Etron GT
Taycan Tiurbo s can do a 7.33 ring time, a shit load faster than a traditional sports car, the traditional definition of a sports car IMO only the Mazda MX-5, Caterham 7, and a couple of Morgans really fit it today. Your Focus RS isn't a sports car either.
the Taycan Turbo GT just knocked this down the 7.07, which is a smidge slower than the AMG GTR Pro.
if I go to YouTube I can find hundreds of videos of people driving the Ring in Taycans.

 

[Big Sam]

A taycan doesnt look like a sportscar
Its not emotive like a sportcars
It weighs too much to be a sportscar
It doesnt sound like a sportscar
Its not bought by people who want a sportscar.

A m3 m5 is more sportscar than a taycan.
Doesnt anyone say, hey, come look at my sportscar? No. Because they are a sports saloon.

I like to use the nurburgring tourist driving as a yardstick as what makes a good sportscar.

If the car is good and enjoyable to drive, you will see plenty of them at the racetrack.

Do we see taycans? No we dont.

Its a overweight family vehicle that just so happens to have a porsche badge, and is used by the majority of people to get from A - B usually on a commute or to the shops.

No one wakes up at 5am on a sunday morning to go on a countryside blast with their fellow sportscar club friends.

The taycan is just a paper ticking, top trumps exercise for those who dont really care about the driving experience. Its got too much power at the detriment of its own efficiency and “green” credentials, because car manufacturers cannot figure out another way to try and make these cars appealing than giving them copious amounts of power and saying wowzers, it does 0-60 in 2.8 secs. Which again most people who buy sportscars dont care about.

And the fact you have all these practical snooze fest vehicles already and then have a r8 v10 which is only beaten in the snooze fest contest in its particular class by a 911 turbo says enough about you to me, to what you look for in a car. And driving pleasure clearly isnt top of the list

It's been made clear to you by two people that nobody is saying the Taycan GTS is a sportscar, so why are continuing to go on?

To counter all the points you made, however, almost everything you've posted is wrong, and I disagree with pretty much everything. Considering I actually own a Taycan GTS, and I have extensive experience of many other cars over my 30 years of driving, I will give your thoughts the attention they deserve. I've no idea what your hoping to achieve? Is it so you can feel good about yourself? Is it so you can tell your bored girlfriend on the sofa tonight about how you told somebody on the internet that their car is rubbish? How old are you?

"I like to use the Nurburgring tourist driving as a yardstick". And a first gen R8 V10 with a manual gearbox, a "snoozefest"? Fair enough, champ.

I'll let Steve Sutcliffe have the final word on the Taycan GTS ST, someone whose opinion is pretty trustworthy...

"The Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo is sensational. Its 4WD chassis offers a real mix of the kind of good stuff that enthusiasts, genuine enthusiasts will love. Its steering in particular is delightful in both its feel and accuracy".

These statements I concur with wholeheartedly, but yet someone on the internet disagrees...

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[Big Sam]

what does a sports car sound like?
what does a sports car look like? If a Taycan isn't a sporting car neither is a Ferrari FF, I would consider them both GTs
how much is a sports car supposed to weight, is there an official limit??
how do you define what sort of people want a sports car and what the definition of a sports car is to those people who want to buy one???
if you consider an M5 to be a sports car then so is the RS6, AMG GT, E63, Cadillac Black Wing, Porsche Panamerica and the Taycan and Etron GT
Taycan Tiurbo s can do a 7.33 ring time, a shit load faster than a traditional sports car, the traditional definition of a sports car IMO only the Mazda MX-5, Caterham 7, and a couple of Morgans really fit it today. Your Focus RS isn't a sports car either.
the Taycan Turbo GT just knocked this down the 7.07, which is a smidge slower than the AMG GTR Pro.
if I go to YouTube I can find hundreds of videos of people driving the Ring in Taycans.

Don't let him twist the conversation. Nobody was saying the Taycan GTS *was* a sportscar.

 

[Fastpaddy]

what does a sports car sound like?
what does a sports car look like? If a Taycan isn't a sporting car neither is a Ferrari FF, I would consider them both GTs
how much is a sports car supposed to weight, is there an official limit??
how do you define what sort of people want a sports car and what the definition of a sports car is to those people who want to buy one???
if you consider an M5 to be a sports car then so is the RS6, AMG GT, E63, Cadillac Black Wing, Porsche Panamerica and the Taycan and Etron GT
Taycan Tiurbo s can do a 7.33 ring time, a shit load faster than a traditional sports car, the traditional definition of a sports car IMO only the Mazda MX-5, Caterham 7, and a couple of Morgans really fit it today. Your Focus RS isn't a sports car either.
the Taycan Turbo GT just knocked this down the 7.07, which is a smidge slower than the AMG GTR Pro.
if I go to YouTube I can find hundreds of videos of people driving the Ring in Taycans.

I never said the m5 is a sports car.

Its a sports saloon.

Two completely different things.

And a few videos of taycans at the ring means nothing. You can find videos of a trabant at the ring.

Im talking going to the nurburging and seeing numerous of the same vehicle.

A focus rs is a shitbox I dont get the relevance there.

Theres a guy that compiles the fastest BTG times by amateur and semi pro drivers.

0 taycans in that list.

“official” manufacturers ring times dont mean much, because they lie and cheat, and porsche, lamborghini, tesla and audi have been caught out by the locals on a few occasions.

When you have amateur guys able to replicate or get close to manufacturers claims then we know its the real deal.

When people can only get close to manufacturers times with multiple upgrades to the vehicles its clear manufacturers times are bullshit.

Don't let him twist the conversation. Nobody was saying the Taycan GTS *was* a sportscar.

you called it a sportscar.

A family and *sportscar* combined.

Now youre packpeddling and saying its not a sportscar.

Make up your mind.

As for sutcliffe, one journo, youve managed to roll out, but the numbers dont lie. Sports car enthusiasts arent buying taycans.

 

[KiwiRob]

You were the person that said 'A m3 m5 is more sportscar than a taycan.' fairly clear where your opinion sits

Your avatar is you and a Focus RS.

 

[Fastpaddy]

You were the person that said 'A m3 m5 is more sportscar than a taycan.' fairly clear where your opinion sits

Your avatar is you and a Focus RS.

Means nothing. Never owned a ford in my life. That ford is also in america. Put 2 + 2 together, it will lead you to 4, instead of the 57 youre currently at.

And a m5 is closer to a sportscar than a taycan. Still doesnt make it a sportscar, as like I said, its a sports saloon, or a super saloon.

Meanwhile a taycan weighs more than a land rover defender.

A very green choice, considering that 50% of harmful airborne particles in major cities are from tyres and brakes, so the taycan will be contributing significantly to premature deaths by dirty air.

Go greens

 

[Big Sam]

you called it a sportscar.

A family and *sportscar* combined.

No I didn't, as has been pointed out to you numerous times. Martin understood perfectly clearly what was meant. It's funny how, yet again, you find it difficult to comprehend written words.

Make up your mind.

As for sutcliffe, one journo, youve managed to roll out, but the numbers dont lie. Sports car enthusiasts arent buying taycans.

Who said they were? If I wanted to buy a more satisfying Porsche to drive I would have bought a Boxster or Cayman (I used to own a Boxster S). As I have my R8 V10, that wouldn't make sense. I drove a Taycan and was absolutely blown away by well it covered the family load-lugging role while also getting pretty close to how my R8 feels to drive, hence it's a family car and sports car combined, something most people seem to grasp except you.

Meanwhile a taycan weighs more than a land rover defender.

Spoken like someone who test drives cars via the spec sheets in car mags and watching YouTube videos. You've said quite a lot of things that make you sound a bit clueless to be honest. The above comment, for one. Saying an R8 V10 manual is a "snoozefest", is another.

I genuinely think you're a teenager or somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience of driving cars. You've said too many naive things that give it away. Nice try with the trolling though!

A very green choice, considering that 50% of harmful airborne particles in major cities are from tyres and brakes, so the taycan will be contributing significantly to premature deaths by dirty air.

Go greens

Ha ha ha! Yet again, showing your complete lack of knowledge about a subject you're lecturing other people on. EVs use a lot less friction braking than ICEs. Most of the braking on my Taycan is via the regen. When I apply the brake pedal, it's actually activating the regen, not the friction brakes. Only when I apply heavy force to the pedal does it seemlessly bring in the brake pads.

As for being green, it had zero influence on my decision to buy a Taycan, but as it happens, I over-generate electricity via my solar panels, so I charge my car for free at home.

I genuinely don't know why you keep coming back for more when you're continuously making a fool of yourself.

 

[Big Sam]

A m3 is more sportscar than a taycan.

As someone who has owned four M3s/M4s from the E46 to the G80, and two Taycans, one of which is a GTS, I disagree wholeheartedly.

That's my opinion, but it's based on actually ownership of multiple vehicles over multiple generations.

How many M3s and Taycans have you owned?

 

[KiwiRob]

As someone who has owned four M3s/M4s from the E46 to the G80, and two Taycans, one of which is a GTS, I disagree wholeheartedly.

That's my opinion, but it's based on actually ownership of multiple vehicles over multiple generations.

How many M3s and Taycans have you owned?

As you likely guessed he's a teenager so zip would be my guess.

 

[Fastpaddy]

As someone who has owned four M3s/M4s from the E46 to the G80, and two Taycans, one of which is a GTS, I disagree wholeheartedly.

That's my opinion, but it's based on actually ownership of multiple vehicles over multiple generations.

How many M3s and Taycans have you owned?

I dont need to own a EV. I value my time more over any inconvenience that comes with owning a EV to save a few pennies.

I also value the enjoyment of driving over a badge and a nice interior.

So 0 taycans, because i think they are a pointless oxymoron vehicle.

I have had and tracked around spa and the nurburging a e46 and e92 m3
Clio 172 cup, completely gutted, track only
Mx5
Vx220 turbo 280hp
Ariel atom supercharged
Audi TTRS 700hp, chassis setup by manthey, full kw 3 way, front and rear LSD, r8 gt3 racecar brake setup, syvecs ecu 8500rpm bla bla bla
AMG GTR 700hp track map by dynotech/tikt in germany and chassis setup by suspension secrets
Audi rs4 b7
Cupra k1 360hp
Porsche 996 turbo 650hp
Golf R 400hp, full AST 3 way suspension, diffs, etc etc
W204 c63

All the VAG stuff is complete and utter dog shit on track stock. Too numb, too vague, too soft, too boring. Need to spend alot of money on those cars to make them enjoyable. And fast.

The 4 door stuff never lasted long, too boring.

M3’s they are good compared to their direct competitors, but overhyped stock. Need work on them. Stock again they are boring but atleast dont understeer like a VAG.

The Porsche, its great, until you drive a vx220 turbo/exige/atom

172 cup, its raw, its engaging, the way it handles and involves you is amazing. Feels quicker than it is. Wouldnt want to have an accident in one. Even let the girls in my office take it around brands hatch.


So yea, your taycan and r8 is a complete and utter snooze fest to me.

We clearly want different things from our cars. I drive mine hard, on track, you drive on the highways.

And its ok, youre getting old you want different things from your vehicles, theres no shame in that, but you dont need to lie to yourself and call the taycan a sportscar.

I too have noticed in the last few years my desires in vehicles are changing, ive always been all out performance, was thinking a 720s or performante next year, but now a 812 is top of my list, as its practical, I wont be tracking it, but instead touring across europe.

Just say you’re priorities in life have changed, youre getting old, you have kids, you dont track your cars, your wife wont let you get anything exciting so it has to be sensible so the odd squirt of acceleration here and there from your EV taycan is about as exhilarating as it gets in your house hold.

The taycan suits you, just dont call it a sportscar

 

[dalab]

I know that the discussion comes with many edges (not just the appearance), but I just saw a white Taycan pass by and if that's not a sportscar I am a bald eagle

 

[KiwiRob]

I have had and tracked around spa and the nurburging a e46 and e92 m3
Clio 172 cup, completely gutted, track only
Mx5
Vx220 turbo 280hp
Ariel atom supercharged
Audi TTRS 700hp, chassis setup by manthey, full kw 3 way, front and rear LSD, r8 gt3 racecar brake setup, syvecs ecu 8500rpm bla bla bla
AMG GTR 700hp track map by dynotech/tikt in germany and chassis setup by suspension secrets
Audi rs4 b7
Cupra k1 360hp
Porsche 996 turbo 650hp
Golf R 400hp, full AST 3 way suspension, diffs, etc etc
W204 c63



The taycan suits you, just dont call it a sportscar

There are only three sports cars in your list, the rest are hot hatchs and GTs. Almost all the other cars are slower stock than a Taycan Turbo S and all are slower than the new Turbo GT

 

[Big Sam]

The taycan suits you, just dont call it a sportscar

Even if you didn't initially understand what I said regarding a Taycan, it has since been made very clear to you...so why are you still continuing to post this?