kiki voinea
Stuttgart Specialist
Whatever... Given the fact that this is an off-topic topic , have it your way. I'm here for fun , not for justice
Gone off track BMW 7-Series (G70/G71) Off Topic: Episode VI
- Thread starter dalab
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martinbo
Staff member
Off topic or not. The fact is, Matski’s right and you are not.
D
Deleted member 57437
Well, I hope that you'll keep your trousers on and suggest disinfectant spray for your Android screen.
kiki voinea
Stuttgart Specialist
Since you quoted me , read all the sentence: I'm here for fun...
If I want to have a dispute , my wife will happily do it...
klier
Premium
I don't care what you say, you're a f'ing troll and one of the worst
And also completely delusional. You're the epitome of fake news.
Cheeeeeeeeers!
bmwz4coupe
Subscriber
Jesus Christ, is this the championship of making a fool of yourself…?
martinbo
Staff member
That’s disgusting. Why say such a thing?
klier
Premium
Maybe, maybe not mr grown adult.
Luckily I don't give a rat's ass about what you or anybody else thinks of it. I am just here in this thread to vent, which is truly needed for me with the troll onslaught we have lately.
D
Deleted member 57437
You can follow what has lead up to it.
You know what, Martin...I'm getting a bit tired of your partiality and heavily-skewed reprimands. It leaves me disappointed-hence diminishing my respect for you in your capacity as a moderator. This is not working-certainly not for me and I suspect not for you as well. I'll excercise my option of leaving these forums. Kindly close my account. Goodbye.
martinbo
Staff member
Same old story as Jimmy eh?
Let the record reflect that I lost all respect for you way back. Asking for your account to be deleted and then coming right back as a new persona with the same pattern of behaviour without being accountable for your past words. Then, having the gumption to summarily put others on your ignore list and proudly broadcast this as your solution to dealing with those who take you to task.
D
Deleted member 57437
Kindly close my account. Goodbye.
D
Deleted member 57437
Aha ! So that's how your cookie crumbles.
Having lost all respect for a forum member will have inherently made you biased. Fair territory for a normal, unempowered member. Like most anybody else, you'll find some people likeable, others less so and others repugnant. But in being a moderator, you should be above that when exercising your task at hand. Apparently, you are not. Hence, my loss of respect for you in your capacity as a moderator. As a human being...we don't know each other personally, we'll surely never meet and in all honestly, both you and I couldn't probably care less.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who also recommended "ignoring" rather than getting entangled in malicious, senseless discourse ?
Now I'll keep my mouth shut if you'll just kindy close my account.
braaf
Stuttgart Specialist
Exactly why I didn't bother replying.
Big Sam
Highway Hunter
He constantly bangs on about putting people on his ignore list as if he's somehow taken the higher ground, but the reality is it's his instant and childish solution to the inevitible response he attracts with his wildly subjective and highly refutable statements.
I had his number from an early stage, as I did Scott's.
Kindly close the door on your way out.
martinbo
Staff member
That's precisely the issue I have. By all means put people on ignore - that's why the function's there - but don't boast about it and make references to others as pests just because you can't stand up to scrutiny and this after you've rejoined the forum having had your previous persona removed for that exact reason.
You and I had the mother of all fallouts over a particular issue. We probably still will see it differently to this day but I will say this - you never wavered from your position and you stood by your words. For this you'll always have my respect as an individual - "difficult" user you may be for some (but let's not get into that here).
Big Sam
Highway Hunter
Cheers mate. No hard feelings.
bmwz4coupe
Subscriber
advantage20
Autobahn Explorer
It's pretty hilarious how certain members will obsessively harass other members for having stopped addressing one particular point of contention from years ago, and will publicly shame them for having ended up using the ignore function as some sign of intellectual cowardice -- all in the name of noble contradictory debate and brave defense of one's ideas; but then, whenever seeing their own white knight crusades miserably fall through in front of logical reasoning backed by actual factual / statistical / video evidence, where undeniable premises lead to undeniable conclusions which happen to shatter their narratives to pieces, will go to the greatest lengths to put an end to given discussion: name-calling, reporting to the mods like a school snitch, calling for a ban, hypocritically begging to be put on the ignore list -- ultimately defecating on the very principles of debate they claim to be upholding. And, incidentally, will blame them for coming back with a fresh new account when they have left and come back multiple times under various user names themselves. No one owes s#it to someone who claims to be open to debate but then runs to report to the authority figures like a coward whenever a discussion isn't going their way.
Generally speaking, debate cannot be held whenever logical reasoning, i.e. the actual tool of argument, is bridled. Logical reasoning requires for the resolution of an emerging dispute to be left open to the defense of either antithetical position, until the most convincing one prevails. If the issue of an argument is already a foregone conclusion set in stone, there is no debate. An issue is indeed a foregone conclusion whenever certain potential conclusions are already crossed out ex ante (not because they'd be illegal, but because they'd be inconvenient to a certain narrative, because they might offend X or Y's feelings, because they are associated to Z political tag, etc.). If the playing field is filled with landmines which only one side (was it "the usual suspects"?) can run into while the other side is shielded by its mere claim of belonging to the camp of the "Good", there is no fair match.
Of course any forum is free to adopt a political stance and not be a democracy, and whoever is unhappy about that is free to leave. But for instance the "political speech belongs in the politics section" constantly repeated mantra is quite the smoke and mirrors. E.g. I'd once gotten a 3 month thread ban simply for having posted undisputable video evidence of a prior claim I had made which had been wrongfully called a "conspiracy theory", because I'd been "warned but chose to take another path" -- that didn't change my life in any way but the given reason was ridiculous.
In fact calling out "political speech" at the slightest remark that potentially has "political" ramifications is one of the most hypocritical things to have ever been said on a forum: humans are inherently social beings with evolved language allowing for advanced ideation and expression thereof, and it's only natural to eventually flirt with "politics" when conveying thoughts and ideas, because nearly every aspect of humans living together and interacting with each other can be interpreted in a "political" way. Fair enough, this should be proactively avoided on car threads. However, political off-topic is unevenly tolerated; and then, even political threads themselves are consistently bridled, either under the guise of "fake news" (with contrary demonstration being forbidden) or, when the facts are too blatant to be denied, under the guise of "hate speech", which in most cases is a red herring that has nothing to do with hatred and discrimination, and everything to do with addressing specific ongoing issues that are violating the very foundational principles of peaceful, cordial and lawful coexistence in society, without special treatment and selective privileges. (That there are individuals who choose to live insulated in safe and comfortable bubbles doesn't cancel the importance of given issues in the general interest of society.)
What is left then if debate is stifled? A gradual decline of ideas and thought altogether, i.e. words which have meaning and relevance behind them (whether others agree or not); in favor of blurting out primitive "I like X"/"I hate Y", which are mostly uninteresting and irrelevant to other readers in and of themselves, don't bring anything of value to the table and don't help build a discussion. Ego battles over petty things for venting out nerves. Showing off. And a circle j#rk of a few members who are very happy with the status quo, while the majority either has to walk on eggshells or sign off. As I've once been told after rightfully citing the source of a relevant piece of information I had reposted here, "it's not good for the forum to link to other websites" -- there you go, traffic and ad revenue seem to be the bottom line, not passion for cars and certainly not passion for discussion in general. Which, again, is fine for whoever is happy reading cries of like and dislike, talks about the weather, trolling for trolling sake, but in the grand scheme of things probably isn't leading to creating the most relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere -- one which more and more members seem to find stale and suffocating.
Should the contours of what is forbidden be more precisely defined and explained, there would be significantly less anger and friction building up; but broad stroke rules, for example treating any sort of evidence-backed critical thinking whatsoever against certain sacred cows as "bigotry" and "hate speech", are ironically analogous to the very same political and religious type of dogmas that given rules claim to be combating in the first place; and can only favor an overly inflated sense of entitlement on one side of the argument and a sense of mistrust and unfair treatment on the other. Having said all that, these are just my personal thoughts and I'm aware the forum's inner workings aren't going to change in any way, so this isn't some sort of challenge and in fact I won't be expanding on the rules topic any further.
Generally speaking, debate cannot be held whenever logical reasoning, i.e. the actual tool of argument, is bridled. Logical reasoning requires for the resolution of an emerging dispute to be left open to the defense of either antithetical position, until the most convincing one prevails. If the issue of an argument is already a foregone conclusion set in stone, there is no debate. An issue is indeed a foregone conclusion whenever certain potential conclusions are already crossed out ex ante (not because they'd be illegal, but because they'd be inconvenient to a certain narrative, because they might offend X or Y's feelings, because they are associated to Z political tag, etc.). If the playing field is filled with landmines which only one side (was it "the usual suspects"?) can run into while the other side is shielded by its mere claim of belonging to the camp of the "Good", there is no fair match.
Of course any forum is free to adopt a political stance and not be a democracy, and whoever is unhappy about that is free to leave. But for instance the "political speech belongs in the politics section" constantly repeated mantra is quite the smoke and mirrors. E.g. I'd once gotten a 3 month thread ban simply for having posted undisputable video evidence of a prior claim I had made which had been wrongfully called a "conspiracy theory", because I'd been "warned but chose to take another path" -- that didn't change my life in any way but the given reason was ridiculous.
In fact calling out "political speech" at the slightest remark that potentially has "political" ramifications is one of the most hypocritical things to have ever been said on a forum: humans are inherently social beings with evolved language allowing for advanced ideation and expression thereof, and it's only natural to eventually flirt with "politics" when conveying thoughts and ideas, because nearly every aspect of humans living together and interacting with each other can be interpreted in a "political" way. Fair enough, this should be proactively avoided on car threads. However, political off-topic is unevenly tolerated; and then, even political threads themselves are consistently bridled, either under the guise of "fake news" (with contrary demonstration being forbidden) or, when the facts are too blatant to be denied, under the guise of "hate speech", which in most cases is a red herring that has nothing to do with hatred and discrimination, and everything to do with addressing specific ongoing issues that are violating the very foundational principles of peaceful, cordial and lawful coexistence in society, without special treatment and selective privileges. (That there are individuals who choose to live insulated in safe and comfortable bubbles doesn't cancel the importance of given issues in the general interest of society.)
What is left then if debate is stifled? A gradual decline of ideas and thought altogether, i.e. words which have meaning and relevance behind them (whether others agree or not); in favor of blurting out primitive "I like X"/"I hate Y", which are mostly uninteresting and irrelevant to other readers in and of themselves, don't bring anything of value to the table and don't help build a discussion. Ego battles over petty things for venting out nerves. Showing off. And a circle j#rk of a few members who are very happy with the status quo, while the majority either has to walk on eggshells or sign off. As I've once been told after rightfully citing the source of a relevant piece of information I had reposted here, "it's not good for the forum to link to other websites" -- there you go, traffic and ad revenue seem to be the bottom line, not passion for cars and certainly not passion for discussion in general. Which, again, is fine for whoever is happy reading cries of like and dislike, talks about the weather, trolling for trolling sake, but in the grand scheme of things probably isn't leading to creating the most relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere -- one which more and more members seem to find stale and suffocating.
Should the contours of what is forbidden be more precisely defined and explained, there would be significantly less anger and friction building up; but broad stroke rules, for example treating any sort of evidence-backed critical thinking whatsoever against certain sacred cows as "bigotry" and "hate speech", are ironically analogous to the very same political and religious type of dogmas that given rules claim to be combating in the first place; and can only favor an overly inflated sense of entitlement on one side of the argument and a sense of mistrust and unfair treatment on the other. Having said all that, these are just my personal thoughts and I'm aware the forum's inner workings aren't going to change in any way, so this isn't some sort of challenge and in fact I won't be expanding on the rules topic any further.
@advantage20
Get over yourself, 99.9% of the shit that's posted in the name of politics stays on the forum and zero, to little, moderation action is taken against users. You got thread banned by me for ignoring a polite warning from Martin and doubling down with the suggestion ...
"That's right, keep your head buried desperately trying to save the Truman Show reality you and your circle jerk buddies are living in. Unfortunately that won't disappear all the evidence that's building up and the successful lawsuits for defamation that are piling up against your officially authorized ministers of truth."
... after people questioned your sourcing of Paul Joseph Watson in an argument.
If you've got a problem with this circle jerk Truman show reality, you are welcome to go elsewhere. I notice you don't go off on one to the same length on Bimmerpost, perhaps they're not as tolerant of your views as we are.. also, where are these ministers of truth?? You suggest they have an influence on what we tolerate here? Where are they? Can you link them, tag them? No?
Stop playing the victim, it's offensively pathetic.
... and just for the avoidance of doubt, no threats of thread bans or points is implied or present in this post, you're not being censored and nothing I posted has anything to do with the political leaning of the site.
Get over yourself, 99.9% of the shit that's posted in the name of politics stays on the forum and zero, to little, moderation action is taken against users. You got thread banned by me for ignoring a polite warning from Martin and doubling down with the suggestion ...
"That's right, keep your head buried desperately trying to save the Truman Show reality you and your circle jerk buddies are living in. Unfortunately that won't disappear all the evidence that's building up and the successful lawsuits for defamation that are piling up against your officially authorized ministers of truth."
... after people questioned your sourcing of Paul Joseph Watson in an argument.
If you've got a problem with this circle jerk Truman show reality, you are welcome to go elsewhere. I notice you don't go off on one to the same length on Bimmerpost, perhaps they're not as tolerant of your views as we are.. also, where are these ministers of truth?? You suggest they have an influence on what we tolerate here? Where are they? Can you link them, tag them? No?
Stop playing the victim, it's offensively pathetic.
... and just for the avoidance of doubt, no threats of thread bans or points is implied or present in this post, you're not being censored and nothing I posted has anything to do with the political leaning of the site.
Big Sam
Highway Hunter
There's nothing to debate. You have a history of posting xenophobic, bigoted, and sometimes racist material. It's disgusting. You already received a warning from Martin on 5th October last year after your latest bile-ridden musings...
"I've afforded you the time to read through your posts and attempted rhetoric. Your posts are demonstrably laced with prejudice and hateful language which is clearly aligned with far right-wing views. This forum is not a platform for the expression of such views. As such, you are required to desist from posting your views and opinions on this matter. Failure to comply will result in corrective action being taken for the benefit of this global forum."
Martin, 5th October 2021
What is there to define? Don't post hate speech on the forum. I'm sure there are many right-wing forums for you to post your bigoted nonsense. Why you choose to post it on a car forum is beyond me. You're absolutely obsessed with refugees, Muslims, and black people. The following are just a handful of your quotes from doing a quick search:
The lines below are from a SINGLE post!! (hidden behind a spoiler so people can choose not to read them):
* "you are advocating for the gradual devastation of our European cities, cultures, economies, ways of life, the majority's and especially the women's physical safety and integrity".
* "you have simply chosen to favor people coming from the other end of the world, many of whom either don't care or outright hate our culture and way of life (except for the welfare benefits".
* "feeling closer to the barbarians who are thrashing UK hotels right now than to your fellow Englishmen or Europeans;"
* "they are the teens that are being assaulted in late night suburban trains for being white".
* "they are the ones getting mugged, stabbed, shot, raped, mowed down or beheaded in the streets by those who you are welcoming en masse with open arms."
* "you have simply chosen to favor people coming from the other end of the world, many of whom either don't care or outright hate our culture and way of life (except for the welfare benefits".
* "feeling closer to the barbarians who are thrashing UK hotels right now than to your fellow Englishmen or Europeans;"
* "they are the teens that are being assaulted in late night suburban trains for being white".
* "they are the ones getting mugged, stabbed, shot, raped, mowed down or beheaded in the streets by those who you are welcoming en masse with open arms."
On the 22nd March 2020, you question whether Barack Obama might be a secret Muslim.
* "How could they possibly call Obama racist when he ticks almost every woke box there is (Black, left-wing, Democrat, perhaps Muslim),"
* "How could they possibly call Obama racist when he ticks almost every woke box there is (Black, left-wing, Democrat, perhaps Muslim),"
You come across as completely unhinged.
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Gone off track
Off track from the 2023 (MY) BMW 7-Series (G70/G71)
- Deleted member 1071
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