martinbo
Staff member
The i8 deserves to get credit for what it is as well as how it's made.
Whereas the NSX makes use of an aluminium and steel spaceframe together with aluminium and some glass fibre composite body panels (only the frame floor is carbon fibre), the BMW i8 has a much more extensive application of carbon fibre and CFRP throughout the vehicle's construction.
Not in any way detracting from the impressiveness of the NSX - I voted for it after all - but it must be appreciated that the i8 represents a completely new milestone in the development of the sports car. Importantly, the i8 bears none of socially reproachable connotations associated with just about any other sporting / supercar around.
I've always viewed the i8 as an ultra-modern and very special landmark sports car which will attain revered status in the years to come. I'd love to have one in my garage; almost as much as the NSX. And, a lot of this appreciation has to do with what the i8 represents for the future of the sports car.
Whereas the NSX makes use of an aluminium and steel spaceframe together with aluminium and some glass fibre composite body panels (only the frame floor is carbon fibre), the BMW i8 has a much more extensive application of carbon fibre and CFRP throughout the vehicle's construction.
Not in any way detracting from the impressiveness of the NSX - I voted for it after all - but it must be appreciated that the i8 represents a completely new milestone in the development of the sports car. Importantly, the i8 bears none of socially reproachable connotations associated with just about any other sporting / supercar around.
I've always viewed the i8 as an ultra-modern and very special landmark sports car which will attain revered status in the years to come. I'd love to have one in my garage; almost as much as the NSX. And, a lot of this appreciation has to do with what the i8 represents for the future of the sports car.
Sunny
Premium
Why would you not consider it a sports car?
ps. I as well as most here know very well you are not posing the question with any intent of learning anything about the i8 or having a healthy discussion about i8's merits or demerits, but just to troll. But you want to continue down that line, be my guest.
Ok now we got the AMG GT in the comparison, well then my choice would be the AMG it has classical beautiful sports car lines while the other 2 are having more complex and controversial styling lines. The interior of the AMG just grabs if for me ahead of the NSX and i8 comes last for both exterior and interior styling/looks
KiwiRob
Autotechnik Ace
You can think you know what my intentions are but you're wrong. You can't even give a reason why it should be considered a sportscar.
Easy it's not a sports car by any definition, and MX-5 is a sportscar, a Fiat Bachetta is a sports car, a Lotus Elan is a sports car, a Porsche Boxster is a sportscar, an MGB is a sports car. Something they all have in common is two doors and two seats, small size, light weight, fun vehicles to drive, something the i8 isn't. It's a GT, and obviously so. It's not a supercar either, it doesn't have the performance, if BMW had ditched the back seats, given it NSX levels of power, decent sized tyres and made it handle like a supercar then BMW would have a supercar.
Honda has built the car BMW should have built instead of the i8.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
I don't know about that. I8 isnt exactly failing in sales.
martinbo
Staff member
Quite confrontational no?. Axe to grind? It's not your place to determine whether someone is able to give a reason or not. That's an assumption on your part.
I can't say that I agree with you in any way. Your classification of a sports car belongs back in 1982.
The 991 Carrera is a sports car - it's in fact one of the world's definitive sports cars - and it has two doors, two front seats plus two useless back seats and weighs (in comparable 4S guise) 1465 kg (DIN).
If the 991 is a sports car then the i8 is a sports car. The i8 is not a GT; a grand tourer is widely acknowledged to have its engine in front of the cabin as de rigeuer. Any mid-engined car is viewed as a sports car and upwards.
The BMW i8 is light by modern standards at 1485 kg (DIN) more so even considering its hybrid ancillaries. It's a 2 + 2 with a mid-mounted engine. Sports car <--o----------------> GT.
Who would've thought that spirit-of-footie-osmosis would take place all the way across in Norway...
KiwiRob
Autotechnik Ace
I'd say that's because there isn't much else like it and the badge whores buy it because of the badge. Now there is a real hybrid supercar within the reach of most supercar buyers and not in the stratosphere like the P1, 918 and LaFerrari. Both i8 and NSX sit in the same ballpart price bracket 135,000 to 150,000 USD, so why would anyone buy a lower powered, slower i8 over a much faster NSX?
If someone is going to say I'm wrong, give a reason for it, not just say I'm wrong, it means nothing.
There is no reason why a GT can't have it's engine in the back. I don't even think the 911 after the 996 generation is really a sports car anymore either, it's morphed into a GT for the Carerra models and an out and out supercar for the GT3, Turbo & GT2 models, at best the line between what is a sportscar and GT with the 911 is very blurred. Porsche's sportscars are now the Boxster and Caymen.
At best the i8 is a midengined 2+2 coupe, a spiritual successor to the Dino 308 GT4 and Ferrari Mondial 8.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
KiwiRob
Autotechnik Ace
I don't see any prejudice in the above post, just reality. A lot of people buy cars based on badge, it's not rocket science, hence the reason why the compact premium's A4, C Class and 3'er have decimated sales of like sized vehicles from the mainstream brands. A Ford Mondeo is an excellet car, well built, excellent handling, in many way's it's a better car than the entry level German compact execs, it doesn't sell as well as it should because of the badge, but I guarantee if the Ford badge was swapped with a BMW one it would sell is significanlty higher numbers.
It's all about the brand, humans beings love brands, people generally buy the luxury and in fashion brands even when they can't really afford to, marketing people love us, because we are easily lead. Apple is a prime example, the average Joe is prepared to pay more for an Apple product than a Samsung or Sony phone or any number of pc/laptop/table brands all because of the branding not because they can do more or are better. Anyone with a couple of marketing papers from university would be able to tell you that.
It's all about the brand, humans beings love brands, people generally buy the luxury and in fashion brands even when they can't really afford to, marketing people love us, because we are easily lead. Apple is a prime example, the average Joe is prepared to pay more for an Apple product than a Samsung or Sony phone or any number of pc/laptop/table brands all because of the branding not because they can do more or are better. Anyone with a couple of marketing papers from university would be able to tell you that.
martinbo
Staff member
BMW has this to say about the i8.
THE MOST PROGRESSIVE SPORTS CAR.
The BMW i8.
The BMW i8 is ready to revolutionise its vehicle class. As the first sports car with the consumption and emission values of a compact car. The strength of the plug-in hybrid lies, among other factors, in the perfect synchronisation of electric motor and combustion engine, which makes itself apparent in maximum efficiency and dynamics on the road. The first sports car that even accelerates the zeitgeist.
Every great pioneering achievement has its own story. In the case of the BMW i8, it begins in 2008 with the launch of Project i – and with no lesser objective than the reinvention of urban mobility. Just one year later, the BMW Vision EfficientDynamics concept showed what a technology leader geared fully toward energy saving can look like. This was the basis that gave rise to the BMW Concept i8, which demonstrated in near-production-ready form where the development would lead. All available BMW EfficientDynamics technologies were already united within this vehicle, an intelligent lightweight concept had been implemented, and the idea of a sports car for the future was already detectable. Series production of the BMW i8 marks the current peak of the development: a plug-in hybrid with the appearance and the breathtaking performance of a sports car, which at the same time exhibits the consumption and emissions of a compact car. And thus convincingly resolves the apparent contradiction between efficiency and dynamics.
Through its overall concept, the BMW i8 embodies the accomplished vision of a modern and sustainable sports car. The highly emotive design instantly shows which qualities the BMW i8 has to offer. Yet is doesn’t rely entirely on its sports car character. Its aesthetics also pursue functional aims: more aerodynamics for maximum efficiency.
Porsche has this to say about the 991:
Identity 911
Our own engineering tradition is evident from the ‘Dr. Ing. ’ in our company name. Also from our racing victories, now totalling more than 30,000. Not only more feats of heroism, but responsibility for the future of the sports car and for the environment. Then there is the 911’s reputation as an iconic sports car. However, this reputation means nothing unless we continue to breathe new life into old ideas. For us, heritage and future are inseparably linked. Of course, we could simply have made a capable sports car, but this wouldn’t have been a Porsche, and certainly not a 911.
Our identity is the 911. This is also, and especially, true in the 21st century. Instantly recognisable and originally engineered for the racetrack, it continues to stir the emotions today, just as it did in 1963.
Yet, is that enough to move forward? Above all, is it enough for you? Don’t we need to break the stranglehold of tradition once in a while before it one day stifles innovation altogether? We believe that the answer is ‘yes’. This is our approach to the preservation of tradition. It is precisely how we respond to the passion for the sports car and do justice to the 911 legend – and always with tomorrow in mind.
Character
In the 21st century, we find ourselves caught between all kinds of opposites on a daily basis: between the demands of our work life and our private life, between the real world and virtual reality. How can they all be reconciled? With a strong identity and a sports car that has incorporated many contradictory notions since 1963.
Clearly, both BMW and Porsche regard their products as sports cars. And, in the context of the 21st century they most certainly are.
Anyone with a modicum of petrolheaded-ness will categorise GTs in the modern context as large, heavy, luxurious, powerful FR Layout two door coupes in order to achieve a more elegant separation of definition. The i8 doesn't meet all of these criteria.
Think GT in the modern context and you get BMW M6, Ferrari's FF and F12Berlinetta, Aston Martin Vanquish, Bentley Conti GT and Jaguar XKR. Obviously classification is subjective, open to interpretation and lines can be blurred but logical analysis will depict where the weighting of the classification lies, hence this simple diagram:
911, i8, Boxster, 4C, Cayman [Sports cars] <------O------> [GTs] M6, Conti GT, XK, Maserati Gran Turismo, Vanquish, F12
But let's not split hairs about the lines between GT and Sports cars being blurred. Let's get back to the crux of the matter where you summarily dismissed assertions of the i8 being a sports car.
And, therefore, by your own argument, if sports car and GT lines are thusly blurred then the degree of separation in terms of direct comparison with a supercar becomes even greater.
THE MOST PROGRESSIVE SPORTS CAR.
The BMW i8.
The BMW i8 is ready to revolutionise its vehicle class. As the first sports car with the consumption and emission values of a compact car. The strength of the plug-in hybrid lies, among other factors, in the perfect synchronisation of electric motor and combustion engine, which makes itself apparent in maximum efficiency and dynamics on the road. The first sports car that even accelerates the zeitgeist.
Every great pioneering achievement has its own story. In the case of the BMW i8, it begins in 2008 with the launch of Project i – and with no lesser objective than the reinvention of urban mobility. Just one year later, the BMW Vision EfficientDynamics concept showed what a technology leader geared fully toward energy saving can look like. This was the basis that gave rise to the BMW Concept i8, which demonstrated in near-production-ready form where the development would lead. All available BMW EfficientDynamics technologies were already united within this vehicle, an intelligent lightweight concept had been implemented, and the idea of a sports car for the future was already detectable. Series production of the BMW i8 marks the current peak of the development: a plug-in hybrid with the appearance and the breathtaking performance of a sports car, which at the same time exhibits the consumption and emissions of a compact car. And thus convincingly resolves the apparent contradiction between efficiency and dynamics.
Through its overall concept, the BMW i8 embodies the accomplished vision of a modern and sustainable sports car. The highly emotive design instantly shows which qualities the BMW i8 has to offer. Yet is doesn’t rely entirely on its sports car character. Its aesthetics also pursue functional aims: more aerodynamics for maximum efficiency.
Porsche has this to say about the 991:
Identity 911
Our own engineering tradition is evident from the ‘Dr. Ing. ’ in our company name. Also from our racing victories, now totalling more than 30,000. Not only more feats of heroism, but responsibility for the future of the sports car and for the environment. Then there is the 911’s reputation as an iconic sports car. However, this reputation means nothing unless we continue to breathe new life into old ideas. For us, heritage and future are inseparably linked. Of course, we could simply have made a capable sports car, but this wouldn’t have been a Porsche, and certainly not a 911.
Our identity is the 911. This is also, and especially, true in the 21st century. Instantly recognisable and originally engineered for the racetrack, it continues to stir the emotions today, just as it did in 1963.
Yet, is that enough to move forward? Above all, is it enough for you? Don’t we need to break the stranglehold of tradition once in a while before it one day stifles innovation altogether? We believe that the answer is ‘yes’. This is our approach to the preservation of tradition. It is precisely how we respond to the passion for the sports car and do justice to the 911 legend – and always with tomorrow in mind.
Character
In the 21st century, we find ourselves caught between all kinds of opposites on a daily basis: between the demands of our work life and our private life, between the real world and virtual reality. How can they all be reconciled? With a strong identity and a sports car that has incorporated many contradictory notions since 1963.
Clearly, both BMW and Porsche regard their products as sports cars. And, in the context of the 21st century they most certainly are.
Anyone with a modicum of petrolheaded-ness will categorise GTs in the modern context as large, heavy, luxurious, powerful FR Layout two door coupes in order to achieve a more elegant separation of definition. The i8 doesn't meet all of these criteria.
Think GT in the modern context and you get BMW M6, Ferrari's FF and F12Berlinetta, Aston Martin Vanquish, Bentley Conti GT and Jaguar XKR. Obviously classification is subjective, open to interpretation and lines can be blurred but logical analysis will depict where the weighting of the classification lies, hence this simple diagram:
911, i8, Boxster, 4C, Cayman [Sports cars] <------O------> [GTs] M6, Conti GT, XK, Maserati Gran Turismo, Vanquish, F12
But let's not split hairs about the lines between GT and Sports cars being blurred. Let's get back to the crux of the matter where you summarily dismissed assertions of the i8 being a sports car.
And, therefore, by your own argument, if sports car and GT lines are thusly blurred then the degree of separation in terms of direct comparison with a supercar becomes even greater.
klier
Premium
Just hilarious. Thanks for the giggle.
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