BMW scraps plans for R8 rival

[hoffmeister_fan]

Sometimes there are no words to sum up a feeling. It's just so and

By the way, the is in regard to BMW's persistent disregard for not building a real sports car. I didn't even bother reading the thread as I was annoyed.

The i8 better exceed my expectations and perception, or, to quote the late father of Russell Peter, "Somebody gonna get hurt real bad."

 

[Deckhook]

Mr.Russel implies that BMWs M cars are infact super cars with versatility and livability , something other super cars such as the mercedes - benz sls or the Audi R8 are lack.....I would love to ask MR. Russel how did he come up with such a mockery of BMW M cars?

Totally Agree, the whole point of a sportscar is to visually excite when walking to it and feel special whilst sitting in it and as for livability I don't think either the SLS or R8 fail at this, though I think Betty Swollocks could answer this one better than I.

I personally think it couldn't do any harm having a supercar as part of the line up, such a product boost the rest of the range.

 

[Mr Robert]

Another interesting thing is that BMW motivates its refusal to build a sportscar á la R8 by saying something like "We don't need a Ferrari Enzo" - borderline strawman there and a complete avoidance of the main question by severely exaggregating what is missing in the lineup.

 

[Levi68]

Now this is my personal opinion: Liking in general all good cars, I still always liked BMW most, for its versality and livability, especially thinking of the M3. I always thought if BMW could make a normal car as a 3 Series so good, what if they did a supercar? But I did not feel that BMW needed a supercar, there was Porsche and Ferrari for this. However times are changing, the brand is expanding and more niche models are created, and now a supercar is a MUST, especially when all other brands have one: R8, SLS, 911, Gallardo, 458 Italia, MP4-12C, Esprit (coming), Corvette, GT-R, LFA, NSX (coming again), Supra (probably coming). For now I am only interested in the next M3/M4, but if I won't get any of those, I will never ever think of owning any BMW anymore. What is the reason for that? No supercar? Or no more the image it used to have? I don't know, but I am losing my love for BMW.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Totally Agree, the whole point of a sportscar is to visually excite when walking to it and feel special whilst sitting in it and as for livability I don't think either the SLS or R8 fail at this, though I think Betty Swollocks could answer this one better than I.

The R8 V10 is certainly not intimidating to drive and I could see how someone could live with one on a day to day basis, but it's not easy to forget the reality of the situation in that it's still a two seater, mid-engined supercar. There's no getting away with some of the drawbacks of owning such a car, such as bad visibility, the attention it gets etc. The car is easier to drive the faster you go, so pottering around town requires more effort than hammering it along a nice road in the country. The steering, gear change, brakes, all feel "just right" the faster you go.

I took it out yesterday for the first time in three weeks and it was just incredible.

 

[Monteverdi]

For now I am only interested in the next M3/M4, but if I won't get any of those, I will never ever think of owning any BMW anymore. What is the reason for that? No supercar? Or no more the image it used to have? I don't know, but I am losing my love for BMW.

Similar thing goes for Honda. That brand just lost its main card. What happened to them? Did they decide one day to focus on building boring cars?

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Question though...

What benefits (tangible or intangible) would a proper supercar bring BMW?

- Reinforce the performance and driving-focus of their brand image?
Yeah sure it's wavering a little due to the changes at M-Division and some models (like 5er) being engineered to be softer...but when they can still produce benchmarks like the 1M and new 3er, I feel BMW still has what it takes to live up to that 'sheer driving pleasure' slogan.

- Need to respond to Audi, Mercedes (and even Lexus now) who have all produced excellent supercars even in the midst of this global economic situation?
Audi have struggled to carve-out an identity of their own, and it's clear that they're using BMW's pre-Bangle era formula for success to improve brand image and of course sales. The R8 was definitely a halo vehicle to instantly promote Audi's focus on sporty driving. Mercedes, yeah they've made sports car for a long time, but in past few decades they've mainly be known for their focus on luxury, comfort and ride..so cars such as the SLR and new SLS have now added a sporty edge to the MB brand and this has filtered through to some of their vehicles.
Lexus. Similar situation as MB in that their brand image has been focused around luxury and comfort..not sportiness. With the inception of the -F line up and the LF-A, it's clear they too are trying to add a sporty pedigree to their brand and vehicles.

- Because it's BMW, and they just have to?
When was the last time BMW built a supercar?... the 8 series definitely doesn't count, nor does the Z8. BMW didn't build their brand image and sporty appeal around the original M1, but rather around smaller more nimble (touring) cars, and then with the M brand of vehicles, especially the M3. Granted there are many more supercars out there nowadays to the point where this argument of 'BMW needs to keep up with The Jones' and develop a supercar because everyone has', but is that really a strong enough reason to build a supercar?


I'd love to see what BMW/M can do if they developed a proper supercar, but I can understand their dismissal of the idea just as clearly.

 

[mohsin]

Now this is my personal opinion: Liking in general all good cars, I still always liked BMW most, for its versality and livability, especially thinking of the M3. I always thought if BMW could make a normal car as a 3 Series so good, what if they did a supercar? But I did not feel that BMW needed a supercar, there was Porsche and Ferrari for this. However times are changing, the brand is expanding and more niche models are created, and now a supercar is a MUST, especially when all other brands have one: R8, SLS, 911, Gallardo, 458 Italia, MP4-12C, Esprit (coming), Corvette, GT-R, LFA, NSX (coming again), Supra (probably coming). For now I am only interested in the next M3/M4, but if I won't get any of those, I will never ever think of owning any BMW anymore. What is the reason for that? No supercar? Or no more the image it used to have? I don't know, but I am losing my love for BMW.

I totally agree with you,,I always wonder why the hell doesnnt the beamer come up with a "super car",,It most certainly has the capabilty to build one and probably the capability to build a supercar better than other supercars...
Also when it has penetrated all markets | niche's like motorcades and even jet engines initially, why doesnt it target the supercar market instead of producing roadsters that are neither super cars in the real sense of the word nor family cars (if you have more than two family members)...... I just dont get it ,they spend so much on their technologies and innovative productions like in the Z4 roadster which is really commendable...but is it worth spending all that money to design a (Green) roadster than just putting all that money on making a real super car,,really dont understand what\s holding them back and what keeps them producing cars that are hybrid cars as in both sport and family ,when they have already proved a million times that theyre the leaders in producing such cars and not produce a supercar?

Im just a fan and wellwisher for beamers,I hope they take sensible practical descision

 

[Levi68]

Similar thing goes for Honda. That brand just lost its main card. What happened to them? Did they decide one day to focus on building boring cars?

Yes it is true. It was very sad when the stopped the develoment of the HSV, the LFA rival with NA V10. But I do not think Honda is in a worse case then BMW. M3 and M5 are could cars, but they are still not proper sportscars. BMW is coming with a new era supercar, the i8, but Honda is also coming with a new era supercar, a new era NSX rivival. I I think Honda is on a better way, and if they do it right it oculs really be ok. Remember it is going to keep a NA V6. Then only an S2000 MkII would be missing, but even this could come back to life if the Toyota 86 has succes. The S2000 could reapear before BMW ever decides to build a Z2.

 

[Deckhook]

I think until we see how the i8 is received by the press it's too early to rule out that BMW won't have a supercar. I have high hopes for this car and I'm sure it could easily be adapted to accept a traditional engine.

 

[SCOTT27]

I think until we see how the i8 is received by the press it's too early to rule out that BMW won't have a supercar. I have high hopes for this car and I'm sure it could easily be adapted to accept a traditional engine.

The i8 will not be available with a traditional engine because it then defeats the purpose of the concept and indeed the brand.
The i8 is the newest of the new it is a brave new world and it has no direct competition because it is entirely stand alone it is not a sports car project electrified it is exactly what future mobility ideas should be. And the i8 fits that perfectly.

At the recent BMW-media Christmas event I found some of the industry responses to the i8 and i3 and indeed the BMWi strategy very satisfying to hear from what the industry tell the media and some of the responses range to excitement , regret and in one case outright jealousy.

I will go in to detail later but for now Merry Christmas.

 

[Deckhook]

^ I suppose I was living in hope that they might have considered it but sadly no.

 

[Levi68]

I just thought about something. This official info reminds me this:

"No Z4 M"
"No M SUV"
"No M3 CSL"
"No 1 Series M"

And then BAAAM! Surprise!

I mean, there are rumors, discusions, speculation,"insider" infos, and then official declining. Shorly after, a surprise. Could this hint we are soon going to see a BMW M halocar? I am not talking about the i8 which is not a BMW M but a BMW i. Let's us wait and see, but 10 years we hear "supercar coming", and nothing. Now they officially said there WON'T be any, we could be in for a surprise.

 

[SCOTT27]

I just thought about something. This official info reminds me this:

"No Z4 M"
"No M SUV"
"No M3 CSL"
"No 1 Series M"

And then BAAAM! Surprise!

I mean, there are rumors, discusions, speculation,"insider" infos, and then official declining. Shorly after, a surprise. Could this hint we are soon going to see a BMW M halocar? I am not talking about the i8 which is not a BMW M but a BMW i. Let's us wait and see, but 10 years we hear "supercar coming", and nothing. Now they officially said there WON'T be any, we could be in for a surprise.

There is a specification for a project that BMW M would like to do , unfortunately they need the CFRP resources from BMWi to do so and that wont happen until CFRP is in mass volume production. Once CFRP is being mass produced and the i cars are on the market it will help to bring costs down significantly in order to implement it across the group and M to achieve their vision. To do so now would mean such a project would not make any money so for now there is no business case .

 

[Deckhook]

^ But this only applies to 'normal' M cars, not a supercar which will cost significantly more. McLaren have shown the CF costs don't have to be excessive anymore.

I would love for BMW to jump on the supercar bandwagon and strut their considerable engineering knowhow, but such things are the luxury of the motoring giants or the specialists.

 

[Mr Robert]

The fact that McLaren can do it doesn't mean that BMW can.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

He is talking as if power is only measured by 0 - 60 mph numbers and nothing beyond.

It is painful to see the decline of the brand I used to be so passionate about and used to fight tooth and nails for.

I am not comparing BMW of the days of yore with the present. I am only comparion my own passion I used to have in the days of yore compared to what I have now (or the despise I have).

///Motorsport No more. ///Marketing is today's theme. The business case for a BMW supercar should be the fact that it struts what BMW can do. It shows the competition of how the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'(Not sure this is the case anymore) is still the pinnacle of a true drivers car. It's like BMW is standing trying to become the next GM with mass produced this and that while the competition embrace the fact that there are still true enthusiasts out there that will spend their hard earned money to have the latest and greatest.

Deep down, I'm still in love with how well my e92 drove and how balanced it was and how connected it felt. That's gone, and I want it back.

 

[Deckhook]

The fact that McLaren can do it doesn't mean that BMW can.

Considering they have controlling share in one of the leaders in CF I would say they should be able.

 

[chonkoa]

There is a specification for a project that BMW M would like to do , unfortunately they need the CFRP resources from BMWi to do so and that wont happen until CFRP is in mass volume production. Once CFRP is being mass produced and the i cars are on the market it will help to bring costs down significantly in order to implement it across the group and M to achieve their vision. To do so now would mean such a project would not make any money so for now there is no business case .

Sorry, I don't think BMW can build a super car; they lack a pair and the know-how to do it. The business-case excuse is so lame BMW needs to come up with some creative-excuse, maybe creative-marketing can come to the rescue here.

 

[martinbo]

Well, McLaren for one is a specialist supercar maker and look how kak their MP4-12C turned out relative to its asking price: dodgy electronics, reliability and quality issues, unremarkable looks... and that's the only car they make!

For me personally, BMW's biggest failing was not for not making an R8 rival but much more so for not making more 1M Coupes (and cars like it) and making them earlier on in as many colours as practicable. It's deprivation in the name of heaven knows what.

Sure, BMW could do with a halo car or they could rather focus on making the ///M cars the best they can be. The 1M Coupe and M3 are prime examples of this.