CarAndDriver: Lexus LFA vs Ferrari 599 GTB HGTE Fiorano
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NarutoRamen
Kraftwagen König
That LF-A engine is F__king phenomenal sounding.
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
Finally a comparison between true rivals.
Looks wise: I actually cant decide. The 599 isnt the prettiest of cars, and neither is the LFA. its a tie in my books.
Sound: They both sound the way they should for what they are. Its not like the sound of the 599 would fit the LFA or visa versa.
Performance: Straight line the 599 would win quite convincingly. Around a track, going from SportAutos results the LFA was 0.7 seconds quicker on the HHR and 9 seconds quicker on the Nring compared to the standard 599 (not the HGTE) so Id wager these two would be pretty equal.
I would chose the 599, but the LFA isnt far behind.
Looks wise: I actually cant decide. The 599 isnt the prettiest of cars, and neither is the LFA. its a tie in my books.
Sound: They both sound the way they should for what they are. Its not like the sound of the 599 would fit the LFA or visa versa.
Performance: Straight line the 599 would win quite convincingly. Around a track, going from SportAutos results the LFA was 0.7 seconds quicker on the HHR and 9 seconds quicker on the Nring compared to the standard 599 (not the HGTE) so Id wager these two would be pretty equal.
I would chose the 599, but the LFA isnt far behind.
Keep in mind, all acceleration numbers thus far achieved were without the new launch control (only neutral-dropping was the option available).
LFA is yet to be tested with telemtry with launch control system. If the way it was pulling the AWD R8 V10 in a straight line with launch control is to go by, it is definitely close to the 599 GTB in a straight line.
Around a race track, the review says it all. LFA is a hardcore track car while GTB HGTE is a GT car (600 - 700 lbs weight difference has a lot to do with it). How LFA was carving through the back roads showed that, which is why they favored the LFA.
LFA is yet to be tested with telemtry with launch control system. If the way it was pulling the AWD R8 V10 in a straight line with launch control is to go by, it is definitely close to the 599 GTB in a straight line.
Around a race track, the review says it all. LFA is a hardcore track car while GTB HGTE is a GT car (600 - 700 lbs weight difference has a lot to do with it). How LFA was carving through the back roads showed that, which is why they favored the LFA.
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
wowwowow dude I like the LFA and whereever I try to be balanced about my views you keep throwing nonesense in.
firstly, even without launch control the LFA is trapping about 124 mph in the 1/4 mile. this is indeed quicker than an R8 but NOT in the same league as a 599 which trap on the higher end of 127-128 mph. this is a pretty big difference. a difference that launch control wouldnt make up for. ive seen many tests of GTRs and LP560s and various ferraris and though the ET will be affected by the launch control the trap speed only varies by about 1 mph.
the test does not say "hardcore track car" it says "hardcore sports car". a hardcore "track car" defines something very different than "sportscar". moreover, the weights we have seen put the LFA slightly short of 3500 lbs while the 599 is about 3800. the difference is ~300 lbs NOT more than double that. thats just wrong information.
This is waste of my time. I don't have time here to sit all day and argue.
MotorTrend, (War of the worlds: ZR-1 vs GTR vs GT2)
Ferrari 599 GTB
1/4 mile: 11.3 secs@126 mph
Test Curb Weight: 4000 pounds
Lateral acceleration: 0.95g
MotorTrend, (War of the worlds: ZR-1 vs GTR vs GT2)
Ferrari 599 GTB
1/4 mile: 11.3 secs@126 mph
Test Curb Weight: 4000 pounds
Lateral acceleration: 0.95g
DeDe
Subscriber
Fact: LFA won't keep up with the 599 on a straightline. With a great launch control maybe they would be head-to-head up to 100 km/h, but over that speed the 599 would pull away. That's a fact.
Best 0-300 km/h time for the 599 GTB is 29,9 s, worst I've seen is 35,6 s.
LFA? Tested only once: 50,6 seconds. Add a great L.C. and cut 5-6 seconds: Maybe a 45-46 s time... still far from the Ferrari.
Best 0-300 km/h time for the 599 GTB is 29,9 s, worst I've seen is 35,6 s.
LFA? Tested only once: 50,6 seconds. Add a great L.C. and cut 5-6 seconds: Maybe a 45-46 s time... still far from the Ferrari.
No arguments on the 300 KM/H. The 300 km/h is arguably due to downforce from the wing angle (well documented) where it trades very high downforce for acceleration, which unless LFA can retract the spoiler at high speed is hard to determine, but will be in the 30s somewhere.
I was talking specifically 1/4 mile times where launch is everything to achieve a good 1/4 mile time (up until 125 - 130 mph) where LFA is very close since it achieved 11.8 secs@126 mph (Automobile magazine) without launch control (using neutral dropping).
I was talking specifically 1/4 mile times where launch is everything to achieve a good 1/4 mile time (up until 125 - 130 mph) where LFA is very close since it achieved 11.8 secs@126 mph (Automobile magazine) without launch control (using neutral dropping).
Fact: LFA won't keep up with the 599 on a straightline. With a great launch control maybe they would be head-to-head up to 100 km/h, but over that speed the 599 would pull away. That's a fact.
Best 0-300 km/h time for the 599 GTB is 29,9 s, worst I've seen is 35,6 s.
LFA? Tested only once: 50,6 seconds. Add a great L.C. and cut 5-6 seconds: Maybe a 45-46 s time... still far from the Ferrari.
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
YAY thanks for posting a test showing the 599 is quicker than the LFA. Want me to post other results? one which vary from 127-129 mph?
you also seem to ignore the fact that you are misinformed about the weights of the two cars. even by dry weights the Lexus's 3200 lbs is NOT 600-700 less than the 599's 3480.
LFA's test curb weight is always in the 3400 - 3500 lbs region while 599 GTB's curb test weight (as shown above) is in the 4000 lbs region. A 500 - 600 lbs weight difference no matter which way you cut it. I can post further proof to support this.
Their dry weight (official) is 3263 lbs vs 3800 lbs. With launch control, LFA will be easily in the 11.2 - 11.4 seconds region for the 1/4 mile especially if R8 V10 does it mostly in 11.5 secs with r-tronic launch control.
Their dry weight (official) is 3263 lbs vs 3800 lbs. With launch control, LFA will be easily in the 11.2 - 11.4 seconds region for the 1/4 mile especially if R8 V10 does it mostly in 11.5 secs with r-tronic launch control.
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
I have not seen anyone go from bias to objectively wrong as quick as you have.
Even if you compare the dy weight of the LFA to the CURB weight of the 599 its still less than your rediculous 600-700 lbs claim. the 4000 lbs figure is the test weight (from what I know with driver and test equipment) the curb weight is just with liquids and full tank of fuel. the dry weight is with no liquids or fuel.
lets compare dry weights:
LFA 3263 lbs
599 3482 lbs
diff: 219 lbs
going by sport auto's curb weights:
LFA 3520 lbs
599 3880 lbs
diff: 360 lbs
going by Road and Track's weights for curb/test:
LFA 3580/3760 lbs
599 3865/4035 lbs
diff: 285/275 lbs
as I said before the difference is ~300 lbs. you called me out in the other thread because I didnt use times from the same day same test and you said this was objectively wrong due to conditions (and technically your right), yet you make hypothetical results as to how the LFA would stack up
(ie the LFA could do this and would do this) not only that, you base these hypothetical results on FALSE information.lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
I quoted my source.
I based the weight difference on their tested weights on each car by MotorTrend.
The only explanation is based on the options selected, 599 GTB can weigh between 38xx - 4000 lbs while LFA since it has all amenities standard weighs 35XX always. The buyers have the option of deleting luxury equipment from the LFA to achieve lighter weight.
I put stats based on the motortrend tested weight of each cars.
MotorTrend Ferrari 599 GTB (599 GTB vs ZR-1 vs GT2 vs GTR):
Curb weight: 3980 lbs
CarAndDriver Ferrari 599 GTB (599 GTB vs Aston Martin DBS)
Curb weight: 4000 lbs
MotorTrend Lexus LFA (LFA vs GTR):
Curb weight: 3560 lbs
Automobile magazine (LFA vs SLS AMG)
Test curb weight: 3460 lbs
p.s. I never make any hypothetical claims. I only said LFA has run 11.8 seconds without any launch control system and launch is everything to get the car faster in acceleration tests. With LFA's new launch control system (on yellow prototype) that limits wheel spin and already pre-loads the first gear, it must easily shave off almost a 0.4 - 0.5 seconds, which is a FACT that it can only be faster. It was proven in the R8 V10 comparison where launch control demonstrated fast launches. There are no two ways about it.
It is also a FACT that Horst Von Saurma of SportAuto said that LFA trades high speed for downforce (170 + mph) and more handling stability due to the wing angle.
It is also a FACT that I posted LFA's downforce numbers with the wing up at 200 KM/H which were highest compared to all other cars.
So you better stop trying to provoke arguments here.
I based the weight difference on their tested weights on each car by MotorTrend.
The only explanation is based on the options selected, 599 GTB can weigh between 38xx - 4000 lbs while LFA since it has all amenities standard weighs 35XX always. The buyers have the option of deleting luxury equipment from the LFA to achieve lighter weight.
I put stats based on the motortrend tested weight of each cars.
MotorTrend Ferrari 599 GTB (599 GTB vs ZR-1 vs GT2 vs GTR):
Curb weight: 3980 lbs
CarAndDriver Ferrari 599 GTB (599 GTB vs Aston Martin DBS)
Curb weight: 4000 lbs
MotorTrend Lexus LFA (LFA vs GTR):
Curb weight: 3560 lbs
Automobile magazine (LFA vs SLS AMG)
Test curb weight: 3460 lbs
p.s. I never make any hypothetical claims. I only said LFA has run 11.8 seconds without any launch control system and launch is everything to get the car faster in acceleration tests. With LFA's new launch control system (on yellow prototype) that limits wheel spin and already pre-loads the first gear, it must easily shave off almost a 0.4 - 0.5 seconds, which is a FACT that it can only be faster. It was proven in the R8 V10 comparison where launch control demonstrated fast launches. There are no two ways about it.
It is also a FACT that Horst Von Saurma of SportAuto said that LFA trades high speed for downforce (170 + mph) and more handling stability due to the wing angle.
It is also a FACT that I posted LFA's downforce numbers with the wing up at 200 KM/H which were highest compared to all other cars.
So you better stop trying to provoke arguments here.
as I said before the difference is ~300 lbs. you called me out in the other thread because I didnt use times from the same day same test and you said this was objectively wrong due to conditions (and technically your right), yet you make hypothetical results as to how the LFA would stack up
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
I took a look at Motor Trend, and at best it places the 599 and LFA 400 lbs from one another. You claimed 600-700. way off. again im not try to provoke any arguments, but even your objective figures are way off. Ive seen quite a lot of 599 mag tests and 3975 is the most weight ive seen for a 599. usually its about 3800ish
I said nothing about highspeed ability or anything else. I just have beef with your "facts"
as for the 1/4 mile time again, you said none sameday tests were invalid yet the LFA "can keep up with a 599" based on your estimates!?
"it must easily shave off almost a 0.4 - 0.5 seconds, which is a FACT"
it is NOT a FACT.
Autozeitung, AMS and autocar also got 3850, 3850, and 3750 respectively.
hoffmeister_fan
Kraftwagen König
With those two monsters "wale"-ing around the countrysides of Wales (yes, terrible pun, I know, but could no resist), it must of scared the wool right off the sheeps. I love the LFA, only if it had a 430 Scuderia-quality tranny. I'm really fond of the interior appointments of the LFA, save for the navvy mouse, it's truly bespoke. With Ferrari, the controls look a little too Fiat-like. At least, the Italia seems to sort that out.
With all these choices out there, even if you can't afford them, it's a good time to be an enthusiast.
With all these choices out there, even if you can't afford them, it's a good time to be an enthusiast.
I quote my source and fully loaded it is about 4000 lbs. Furthermore, the Ferrari 599 GTB HGTE was tested as well and it weighed 4000 lbs also in MotorTrend tests.
Yes, the weight difference is in the ballpark of 500 pounds for comparable equipped cars and though my objective figure of 700 lbs was off and I stand corrected on that, but definitely the difference is in the ballpark of 500 lbs. GTR is the same where it can weigh between 3850 - 4000 lbs in tests depending on the equipment.
I did say LFA shaves off about 0.4 - 0.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile with a good launch control and it is indeed a fact (applies to any car tested with or without launch control).
LFA (Automobile magazine):
Acceleration
0-60 mph: 3.8 sec
0-100: 8.0
0-110: 9.7
0-120: 11.2
0-130: 13.1
0-140: 15.6
1/4-mile: 11.8 sec
Weight: 3450 lb
Yes, the weight difference is in the ballpark of 500 pounds for comparable equipped cars and though my objective figure of 700 lbs was off and I stand corrected on that, but definitely the difference is in the ballpark of 500 lbs. GTR is the same where it can weigh between 3850 - 4000 lbs in tests depending on the equipment.
I did say LFA shaves off about 0.4 - 0.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile with a good launch control and it is indeed a fact (applies to any car tested with or without launch control).
LFA (Automobile magazine):
Acceleration
0-60 mph: 3.8 sec
0-100: 8.0
0-110: 9.7
0-120: 11.2
0-130: 13.1
0-140: 15.6
1/4-mile: 11.8 sec
Weight: 3450 lb
I took a look at Motor Trend, and at best it places the 599 and LFA 400 lbs from one another. You claimed 600-700. way off. again im not try to provoke any arguments, but even your objective figures are way off. Ive seen quite a lot of 599 mag tests and 3975 is the most weight ive seen for a 599. usually its about 3800ish
I said nothing about highspeed ability or anything else. I just have beef with your "facts"
as for the 1/4 mile time again, you said none sameday tests were invalid yet the LFA "can keep up with a 599" based on your estimates!?
"it must easily shave off almost a 0.4 - 0.5 seconds, which is a FACT"
it is NOT a FACT.
lambornima
Porsche Perfektionist
because we want to give the LFA a chance at least
