Composite Carbon Fiber Repairs
- Thread starter Cashmere
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Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
That's the problem with carbon fibre. It's a bit like Styrofoam, there are no repair options that can fully mend the panels into rigid pieces of structure. The ability to absorb energy has been compromised. Thus F1 teams always discard damaged pieces for new ones. This is one of the reasons the material is so expensive, a little knock and it's bye bye, the piece has to be replaced like Lego.
braaf
Stuttgart Specialist
I dont know much carbon fibre, but I reckon by your post that individual pieces are moulded and then bolted together. Which does beg the question, why not get new pieces then.
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
Money. Given that the CGT is out of production it would cost arm and leg to aquire new parts from parts, though a good insurance cover should take care of the cost unless they recommend sending the car to a repair shop for a fix that will conceal the damage.
That repair looks pretty sketchy. You can see the opened-up ends of the honeycomb sandwich material, and it looks like the gap created by removed material is now occupied by filler. Can't help but think that this must compromise the intended structural integrity of the car. The directional weave of the CF is usually dictated by concerns or torsional rigidity and energy dissapation in event of accident, and it's interesting to note that directional weave of the repair laminate appears to go in a perpendicular direction. Perhaps that is done for a reason.
Not sure, but I think the CGT's tub (as well as the Enzo's and SLR's) was done with the old method that requires high heat in an autoclave to cure the resins. As a monocoque, it's probably not as simple as having parts that can be unbolted for replacement. In general, you can't really bolt together CF without first having molded in some sort of metal endpieces. This is not only heavier, but it also sort of obviates the structural advantages of a continuous monocoque frame.
Newer methods (as used by Lamborghini, McLaren, and BMW) tend to employ more cold layup procedures that require less time to make. BMW, with its partner SGL, have tried to develop a CF frame that is more easily repaired, but they are not content to leave it to private individuals to fix them. They are setting up dedicated repair centers for composite repairs on their i3 and i8 city cars.
Not sure, but I think the CGT's tub (as well as the Enzo's and SLR's) was done with the old method that requires high heat in an autoclave to cure the resins. As a monocoque, it's probably not as simple as having parts that can be unbolted for replacement. In general, you can't really bolt together CF without first having molded in some sort of metal endpieces. This is not only heavier, but it also sort of obviates the structural advantages of a continuous monocoque frame.
Newer methods (as used by Lamborghini, McLaren, and BMW) tend to employ more cold layup procedures that require less time to make. BMW, with its partner SGL, have tried to develop a CF frame that is more easily repaired, but they are not content to leave it to private individuals to fix them. They are setting up dedicated repair centers for composite repairs on their i3 and i8 city cars.
braaf
Stuttgart Specialist
That is my understanding too. If I'm not mistaken the entire chasis of this car is moulded with a few bits bolted on, which does make it difficult to repair. I would really love to see an i3 being repaired to see how this would be overcome.
Centurion
Apex Apex Predator
The right amount of money can buy you as many spare parts as you like.
Cashmere
RPM Ruler
Koeniggssegg CCX also has a CF tub.
An acquaintance in Cape Town crashed his CCX-R some time last year (same guy with the cross dressed Zonda Cinque F)
Damage was quite extensive. Koenigssegg refused to ship any of the replacement body panels to South Africa as there aren't any CF repair experts. K'egg said the only way to repair the car would be for it to be shipped back to Sweden and I dont blame them as they probably wanted to make sure that it was fixed the right way. The repair costs were working out to $1 million. The owner of the car got indemnified by his insurance company but what do they do with the car now? Even in its crashed state it is stil worth a pretty penny. The last I heard, this car is sitting at a body shop in Johannesburg awaiting some kind of a miracle donor transplant. Looking at the job on the Carrera GT gives hope to the cars like this crashed CCX, its day might come soon enough.
An acquaintance in Cape Town crashed his CCX-R some time last year (same guy with the cross dressed Zonda Cinque F)
Damage was quite extensive. Koenigssegg refused to ship any of the replacement body panels to South Africa as there aren't any CF repair experts. K'egg said the only way to repair the car would be for it to be shipped back to Sweden and I dont blame them as they probably wanted to make sure that it was fixed the right way. The repair costs were working out to $1 million. The owner of the car got indemnified by his insurance company but what do they do with the car now? Even in its crashed state it is stil worth a pretty penny. The last I heard, this car is sitting at a body shop in Johannesburg awaiting some kind of a miracle donor transplant. Looking at the job on the Carrera GT gives hope to the cars like this crashed CCX, its day might come soon enough.
Here's a pretty good article from Motor Trend. You'll see some of the steps listed here being used up there (what looks like the patch, vacuum seal to remove air, and repair layers positioned at 45 or 90 degrees).
"How to Fix a Lamborghini Aventador Monocoque
Scott Evans on March 16 2011 8:00 AM
Have you been geeking out on Lamborghini’s fancy new carbon-fiber monocoque? We have. But what happens when some careless celebrity wraps theirs around a Beverly Hills parking meter? Enter the Flying Doctor.
Yes, that’s really what they’re calling him. Or, in the near future, several hims (and possibly hers). Because repairing a carbon-fiber monocoque is no everyday task that your local dealer can take care of, Lamborghini is creating a small cadre of specialists who will be strategically based around the world to handle Aventador damage. Right now, there’s only one and he’s based at Lamborghini headquarters in Sant’Agata Bolognese, Italy, but there will soon be one based in the U.S. (likely at or near development partner Boeing in Seattle) to cover North America and one at a yet-to-be-decided location in southeast Asia.
Between them, the Flying Doctors are likely to reach top-tier frequent flyer status quickly given the number of Lamborghinis already populating WreckedExotics.com. The concept is a simple one: an Aventador owner somewhere in the Doctor’s purview stuffs his car and it’s hauled into the local Lamborghini dealer. The Flying Doctor jumps a plane with his toolkit and makes a repair on location before flying home.
But what does he actually do? Unfortunately, Lamborghini wouldn’t allow us to photograph the process, so you’ll have to go by these few supplied photos.
Like any repair, you have to know what you’re repairing first. The full extent of the damage to the carbon-fiber must be cataloged because every last bit of busted fiber needs to be removed to make an effective repair. Before he starts cutting, though, the Doctor needs to make a template. A clear piece of plastic is affixed over the damaged area (in these pictures, it’s a rocker normally found under the driver’s door) and the Doctor draws several ovals around the damage, each slightly larger than the last, to use as a template later.
The damaged area is then cut out of the monocoque, along with a margin of undamaged carbon fiber so the patch will have the best possible surface to adhere to. The rough edge is then sanded down and the surface around the hole is scuffed to improve adhesion. The Doctor then creates a backing piece slightly larger than the hole out of pre-preg carbon fiber that he will fit inside the cavity in the monocoque and glue into place to provide a backing for the patch. Two holes are drilled in the backing piece and a wire is fed through them and back out allowing the Doctor to position it in the monocoque before gluing it in place.
Now, he can turn his attention to the actual patch. This is where the template comes into play. Using it, he cuts five or more (depending on the size of the hole) successively larger ovals out of pre-preg carbon fiber. The patches are then laid over the hole, each layer slightly larger than the last. During this step, it’s imperative that the layers are correctly offset from one another at 45- and 90-degree angles to give the patch the proper strength.
Once the layers are down, it’s time for a vacuum seal. Since the entire car can’t be put in a vacuum bag, the Doctor uses what is essentially half a bag that is glued over the patch. All of the air removed, he then lays a heating pad over the patch which activates the resin in the pre-pregnated carbon fiber patch and cures it. Once the patch is finished, a portable ultrasound scanner in his toolkit checks the integrity of the patch and looks for weak spots caused by air bubbles or other contaminants.
Fully cured, Lamborghini says the patch is as strong as the original monocoque and far less expensive than replacing the entire monocoque or scrapping the car. What’s more, the process works equally well on tradition pre-preg carbon fiber used in part of the monocoque and the proprietary Resin Transfer Molding-created carbon fiber Lamborghini helped pioneer also used in the monocoque. It’s not limited to small repairs, either. The monocoque you see in the background of the pictures was badly damaged in crash testing and looks to be a write-off, but Lamborghini says the whole thing can be repaired with enough time. Lamborghini didn’t mention what would happen, though, if you manage to destroy one of the aluminum mounting plates that’s been embedded into the monocoque and holds the front and rear frames to the monocoque.
After three years of training, Lamborghini’s first Flying Doctor is ready and waiting for his first call which, knowing Lamborghini owners, will likely come by the end of the year. Others are in training, but for now he’s on standby waiting to fly anywhere in the world his services are needed. In the meantime, he’s perfecting his craft at Lambo HQ."
How to Fix a Lamborghini Aventador Monocoque - WOT on Motor Trend
Still looks pretty risky. In the pic where the technician is checking it with the ultrasound machine, there is still a gigantic hole ripped out of the section, comprised of multiple angles and curves. Can't see how a patch will fix this. I suppose if Lamborghini claim the repair is as strong as the original monocoque, then they must have some stress analysis to back this up. Can't say the same for the CGT repair. I'm wondering if having the mass of the car resting on the wheels and seemingly nothing else to distribute the load over a wider area underneath might cause alignment issues. Not so much of a concern in a coupe, but it could be a different matter on a targa which may flex through the floorpan. This should be a very tough car to sell later on.
"How to Fix a Lamborghini Aventador Monocoque
Scott Evans on March 16 2011 8:00 AM
Have you been geeking out on Lamborghini’s fancy new carbon-fiber monocoque? We have. But what happens when some careless celebrity wraps theirs around a Beverly Hills parking meter? Enter the Flying Doctor.
Yes, that’s really what they’re calling him. Or, in the near future, several hims (and possibly hers). Because repairing a carbon-fiber monocoque is no everyday task that your local dealer can take care of, Lamborghini is creating a small cadre of specialists who will be strategically based around the world to handle Aventador damage. Right now, there’s only one and he’s based at Lamborghini headquarters in Sant’Agata Bolognese, Italy, but there will soon be one based in the U.S. (likely at or near development partner Boeing in Seattle) to cover North America and one at a yet-to-be-decided location in southeast Asia.
Between them, the Flying Doctors are likely to reach top-tier frequent flyer status quickly given the number of Lamborghinis already populating WreckedExotics.com. The concept is a simple one: an Aventador owner somewhere in the Doctor’s purview stuffs his car and it’s hauled into the local Lamborghini dealer. The Flying Doctor jumps a plane with his toolkit and makes a repair on location before flying home.
But what does he actually do? Unfortunately, Lamborghini wouldn’t allow us to photograph the process, so you’ll have to go by these few supplied photos.
Like any repair, you have to know what you’re repairing first. The full extent of the damage to the carbon-fiber must be cataloged because every last bit of busted fiber needs to be removed to make an effective repair. Before he starts cutting, though, the Doctor needs to make a template. A clear piece of plastic is affixed over the damaged area (in these pictures, it’s a rocker normally found under the driver’s door) and the Doctor draws several ovals around the damage, each slightly larger than the last, to use as a template later.
The damaged area is then cut out of the monocoque, along with a margin of undamaged carbon fiber so the patch will have the best possible surface to adhere to. The rough edge is then sanded down and the surface around the hole is scuffed to improve adhesion. The Doctor then creates a backing piece slightly larger than the hole out of pre-preg carbon fiber that he will fit inside the cavity in the monocoque and glue into place to provide a backing for the patch. Two holes are drilled in the backing piece and a wire is fed through them and back out allowing the Doctor to position it in the monocoque before gluing it in place.
Now, he can turn his attention to the actual patch. This is where the template comes into play. Using it, he cuts five or more (depending on the size of the hole) successively larger ovals out of pre-preg carbon fiber. The patches are then laid over the hole, each layer slightly larger than the last. During this step, it’s imperative that the layers are correctly offset from one another at 45- and 90-degree angles to give the patch the proper strength.
Once the layers are down, it’s time for a vacuum seal. Since the entire car can’t be put in a vacuum bag, the Doctor uses what is essentially half a bag that is glued over the patch. All of the air removed, he then lays a heating pad over the patch which activates the resin in the pre-pregnated carbon fiber patch and cures it. Once the patch is finished, a portable ultrasound scanner in his toolkit checks the integrity of the patch and looks for weak spots caused by air bubbles or other contaminants.
Fully cured, Lamborghini says the patch is as strong as the original monocoque and far less expensive than replacing the entire monocoque or scrapping the car. What’s more, the process works equally well on tradition pre-preg carbon fiber used in part of the monocoque and the proprietary Resin Transfer Molding-created carbon fiber Lamborghini helped pioneer also used in the monocoque. It’s not limited to small repairs, either. The monocoque you see in the background of the pictures was badly damaged in crash testing and looks to be a write-off, but Lamborghini says the whole thing can be repaired with enough time. Lamborghini didn’t mention what would happen, though, if you manage to destroy one of the aluminum mounting plates that’s been embedded into the monocoque and holds the front and rear frames to the monocoque.
After three years of training, Lamborghini’s first Flying Doctor is ready and waiting for his first call which, knowing Lamborghini owners, will likely come by the end of the year. Others are in training, but for now he’s on standby waiting to fly anywhere in the world his services are needed. In the meantime, he’s perfecting his craft at Lambo HQ."
How to Fix a Lamborghini Aventador Monocoque - WOT on Motor Trend
Still looks pretty risky. In the pic where the technician is checking it with the ultrasound machine, there is still a gigantic hole ripped out of the section, comprised of multiple angles and curves. Can't see how a patch will fix this. I suppose if Lamborghini claim the repair is as strong as the original monocoque, then they must have some stress analysis to back this up. Can't say the same for the CGT repair. I'm wondering if having the mass of the car resting on the wheels and seemingly nothing else to distribute the load over a wider area underneath might cause alignment issues. Not so much of a concern in a coupe, but it could be a different matter on a targa which may flex through the floorpan. This should be a very tough car to sell later on.
