Mr. Mercedes
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Hot! Global sales: Total 2014: Audi, BMW, MB
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HUTSUTAo
High-Rev Hero
the new E will do the job in China
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
None of these brands have a model in the "ultra luxury" segment.
Mr. Mercedes
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No A8 and 7-er sales figures?
These sales just prove the point I've harped on for some time. The W212 is not the failure many portray it to be. Outside of China it's more successful than the 5-er and A6. And MB's woes in China are the result of distribution and marketing issues.
If you take away the China figures for all 3 brands, for all other markets combined Mercedes is marginally on top, BMW a close second and Audi a distant 3rd.
It's going to be interesting to see how 2015 will be, all three will be bringing out some new models and facelift models as well. If Mercedes pick up much more sales in China they could close the gap further to Audi and BMW.
It's going to be interesting to see how 2015 will be, all three will be bringing out some new models and facelift models as well. If Mercedes pick up much more sales in China they could close the gap further to Audi and BMW.
Sunny
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You mention "MB's woes" in China as if it was some random act of god. It wasn't. It was Mercedes's own doing. Mercedes chose to ignore China and invest the money/time/effort elsewhere. Instead, if it invested in China, it would have probably suffered some where else - probably no A/CLA/GLA? Maybe no F1? Maybe it's marketing budget somewhere else would have been slashed the sales there... You can't just pick and choose the grades you like and ignore the rest.
Mr. Mercedes
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Please don't put words into my mouth Sunny. I implied nothing of the sort. If that's how you read it, that's your own understanding. The term 'woes' has no connotations as to whether the predicament was self inflicted or as a result of external factors. Who else do you blame for the poor performance of your brand because of poor distribution and marketing decisions? No one but yourself.
And yes MB did have to invest elsewhere. They did not have the funds to relish on the Chinese operations that they should, as the whole Chrysler debacle cost the company almost $30billion and put them 10 years behind BMW in terms of production efficiency and god knows what else. But again this was not the consequence of 'some random act of god' but the result of their own poor managment and decisions in the late 90's and early 2000's.
And regardless your discussion is going off on a tangent as my post was clearly discussing the W212 not being the 'flop' that so many on here portray it to be.
wL0316
Turbo Tüftler
Audi and BMW can also remove the regions where they perform the worst from Global Sales and claim that they would've ranked differently in sales position.
Not sure what is the point you're trying to make here.
Edit: Grammar
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
Yes I have discussed 'MB's China Woes' previously as being an explanation for their lagging sales. But I have never said it wasn't the result of anything other than their own mismanagement. It's simply an explanation from an analytical point of view, not an excuse.
What I meant here was to show that there is basically only slight differences between the 3 brands in other countries sales except for China where Audi and BMW are far ahead of Mercedes. If Mercedes had to catch up in the China region then it could overtake the other 2 brands, but it will be very close between the 3 brands this year and remaining years in this decade, I reckon that we will have a new leader within next 2 to 3 years if Mercedes performance in 2014 can be consistent. But you never know what will happen in this industry and also what the customers want.
Sunny
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But the analysis usually ends with - "if some how MB can fix China, everything will be awesome". Case in point, below -
Except not. If Mercedes, can somehow catch up in China, it probably means giving up something else and lagging somewhere else. You can't just wish away years of investment from the competition.
Exactly, if you can remove US where Audi does badly in comparison, Audi will probably badly thump the other 2. But you can't just make up alternative realties with out the US.
Same way, it is really silly to make these, "if not for China", alternative realties. China is here, it is major part of the global economy and if you can't sell there, it sucks for you.
Mr. Mercedes
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Not really. It's an interesting discussion for those of us who have an interest in these companies beyond just the cars they produce. The 'business' of car production to many of us is fascinating. Profit margins, research and development spending etc. is all very interesting to some of us. Just as we find the goings on in design departments and the outcomes they produce fascinating i.e the turmoil at Audi and the subsequent fugly Q7, or the discord at MB design evident during the Pfeiffer/Wagenor change over years.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
Well please don't put words into my mouth. The automotive business is in a constant state of flux and this decades darling can end up next decades dog.
Sunny
Premium
You will probably see the same soon for electrical cars. BMW invested a shit load of money in them and if they do take off and if MB lags, I bet we will soon hear - "if MB can catchup in electrical cars, how it would lead...".
I'll post as soon as I see.
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