News and Rumors about Mercedes-AMG

[Swissbob]

I don’t understand why they haven’t built a 5 cylinder engine , that’s an Engine which could be used in the A and C class.

 

[Serpens]

After Moers left AMG it just went downhill after that with the stupid 4 cylinder C43/C63/SL43 mess up.

The C63 situation occurred under Tobias’ watch. He even seemed proud of it in this interview: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/in...rst-pure-electric-sports-car-will-arrive-2025. He took a gamble on the future and it backfired big time.

I don’t understand why they haven’t built a 5 cylinder engine , that’s an Engine which could be used in the A and C class.

What good does a 5 cylinder do? It offers nothing over already existing 4 and 6 cylinder engines.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

What good does a 5 cylinder do? It offers nothing over already existing 4 and 6 cylinder engines.

Sound.
These kinds of motors just sound special, and I'm sure AMG could make a really nice sounding inline 5 if they wanted to.

 

[Serpens]

Sound.
These kinds of motors just sound special, and I'm sure AMG could make a really nice sounding inline 5 if they wanted to.

Ok, so very limited benefit compared to just using an I6.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Ok, so very limited benefit compared to just using an I6.

Sure. But they could use the i5 in the A45 in a transverse application, as well as longitudinal for the RWD cars. It'd have a bit more flexibility than an I6, but still way more characterful than an I4.

If AMG had decided to make the M139/L an I5, while the complaints about the current 43/63e-performance cars would still exist, they'd be dampened a lot because at least an I5 sounds like a baby-V10. That and it'd be able to have a bit more power and torque across the power band, rather than being quite so boosty.

 

[Swissbob]

Ok, so very limited benefit compared to just using an I6.

The I6 wouldn’t fit transverse, the I5 would, and it’d still sound special.

 

[Swissbob]

Sure. But they could use the i5 in the A45 in a transverse application, as well as longitudinal for the RWD cars. It'd have a bit more flexibility than an I6, but still way more characterful than an I4.

If AMG had decided to make the M139/L an I5, while the complaints about the current 43/63e-performance cars would still exist, they'd be dampened a lot because at least an I5 sounds like a baby-V10. That and it'd be able to have a bit more power and torque across the power band, rather than being quite so boosty.

Perfect summary, thank you very much.

 

[Serpens]

The I6 wouldn’t fit transverse, the I5 would, and it’d still sound special.

Yet sound wasn’t a complaint from A/CLA45 owners, which AMG internally is well aware of. Cars that always had I4’s since inception aren’t losing sales. Being “boosty” wasn’t a complaint either.

This is why complaints around sound didn’t occur until the M139 spread into the C-class and SL, vehicles that traded on their sound signature and power delivery.

 

[Swissbob]

Yet sound wasn’t a complaint from A/CLA45 owners, which AMG internally is well aware of. Cars that always had I4’s since inception aren’t losing sales. Being “boosty” wasn’t a complaint either.

This is why complaints around sound didn’t occur until the M139 spread into the C-class and SL, vehicles that traded on their sound signature and power delivery.

Compared to the Audi RS3 the sound was indeed criticized, at least here in Switzerland.

BTW the M133 sounded much better than the M139.

Even in the Lotus Emira the M139 doesn’t sound very well.

 

[GTA45E]

Adding another piston just for the sake of sound quality seems like a weak argument. This is not an idea that would pass in a real-world scenario under the engineering regulations in place. There are many other factors to consider.
The M139 is already a powerful engine. This is the only 4 banger of the German makes that comes with an electric turbo and has one of the highest piston pressure levels in its class. One of the two factors that another piston is not needed in this particular case.
Serpens is correct in saying that this engine is suitable for the A45 and other lower AMG models. The M139 simply does not have the sound or feeling character for the more expensive, upper AMG models like the C, SL and GT class cars. This is where a 6-cylinder is desperately needed. AMG absolutely should invest in a hand-built, closed-deck twin-turbo V6 for its upper-class cars IMO. Hi-performance V6s sound much better than i6 engines when tuned correctly. The Ferrari 296 and Nissan GT-R Nismo are prime examples. No inline 6 can match them for power or sound delivery.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Adding another piston just for the sake of sound quality seems like a weak argument. This is not an idea that would pass in a real-world scenario under the engineering regulations in place. There are many other factors to consider.
The M139 is already a powerful engine. This is the only 4 banger of the German makes that comes with an electric turbo and has one of the highest piston pressure levels in its class. One of the two factors that another piston is not needed in this particular case.

I'm not discounting the efficacy of the M139. However, with an extra piston and displacement (i.e a 2.5L I5), it could have been even more powerful or similar power, with a better torque curve, which is not entirely unreasonable.
Though I think maybe that 2L+ tax in China was probably a factor for Mercedes. And of course, the sound from such a motor would be really nice. This of course also opens up the possibility of a V10. But that is just fantasy.

Serpens is correct in saying that this engine is suitable for the A45 and other lower AMG models. The M139 simply does not have the sound or feeling character for the more expensive, upper AMG models like the C, SL and GT class cars. This is where a 6-cylinder is desperately needed. AMG absolutely should invest in a hand-built, closed-deck twin-Turbo V6 for its upper-class cars IMO. Hi-performance V6s sound much better than i6 engines when tuned correctly. The Ferrari 296 and Nissan GT-R Nismo are prime examples. No inline 6 can match them for power or sound delivery.

I mean I think that's fair enough.
Though I do really like the smooth sound of a good straight 6 motor. So V6 or I6, either I would trust that AMG would be able to make it sound great. An I6 based on the M139 would probably be fairly straight forward for them to make, if they wanted.

The question is... will they?

 

[GTA45E]

^
You're a bit too far into Lala land my friend. When you pull together ideas from fantasy, they must be coherent with what Mercedes-AMG is currently doing or would adopt within reason. (Knowing how the company thinks.) The AMG 4-banger was designed to be paired together as a V8 engine for the top-tier models. If AMG wanted a 5-cylinder, a V10 would have been the order of the day and it would have been geared a bit differently than what we have today. This is not where Mercedes AMG is headed. The design principles of the M133 4-banger, M139 and M177 was to downsize displacement while concentrating horsepower and torque with a cleaner emission footprint.