Hot! Porsche: What's Next

[SNB]

Its amazing how Porsche can fall from hero to zero in such a short time.

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I think a lot of people are underestimating politics involvement with how these companies are run and how profitable they are ( Euro 7, tariffs, Chinese influence/market etc)

 

[Centurion]

Business can be brutal. Win some lose some. The Cayenne was a CRAZY risky and contrarian bet but was an utter home run. The Taycan is the opposite.

I also partially blame the EU for Porsche’s misfortune. The proposed laws for emissions and electrifications, make Porsche aggressively invest in EVs without hedging. Now Ferrari, Bentley and Lamborghini are benefitting from watching unwanted used Taycans, and as a result are changing their plans.

 

[AndreB]

Its amazing how Porsche can fall from hero to zero in such a short time.

IMO that video is crap.

Why it blames Porsche fall on Taycan or Macan EVs? Their other cars aren't big seller either, their cars are over priced and in car technology is behind BMW or MB.

From ChatGPT: In the U.S. market, the Cayenne (~22,432 units) appears to slightly outperform the Range Rover Sport (~20,525 units) in 2024, based on those specific figures.

Current Cayenne and Panamera are just slightly faster facelifts with more screens and cost cutting which customers don't like. Macan ICE was too old and got retired, 718 is old as f*uck too.

The fall is Porsche's problem, not market, politics or EVs.

 

[Swissbob]

They invested in EVs instead of ICEs.

 

[Rolf]

IMO that video is crap.

Why it blames Porsche fall on Taycan or Macan EVs? Their other cars aren't big seller either, their cars are over priced and in car technology is behind BMW or MB.

From ChatGPT: In the U.S. market, the Cayenne (~22,432 units) appears to slightly outperform the Range Rover Sport (~20,525 units) in 2024, based on those specific figures.

Current Cayenne and Panamera are just slightly faster facelifts with more screens and cost cutting which customers don't like. Macan ICE was too old and got retired, 718 is old as f*uck too.

The fall is Porsche's problem, not market, politics or EVs.

Their sales numbers and profits in China have plummeted and the dwindling sales numbers of the Taycan has caused this mainly. But you right most of their model line up is aging and they have this dilemma just like other German brands, of going electric and still keeping ICE cars.

 

[klier]

Yes.

VERY false if you don't have a source.

Both is possible.

Rimac wants all Porsche has, and he is not going to part with what the parts already his. So going to Porsche is out of the question.

 

[Swissbob]

VERY false if you don't have a source.



Rimac wants all Porsche has, and he is not going to part with what the parts already his. So going to Porsche is out of the question.

Source: Auto Motor Sport and Manager Magazine a couple of months ago.

They wrote, that the Porsche families want to get rid of Rimac. The decision of Diess to sell Bugatti was wrong, that’s what they think now.

We‘ll see what will happen.

 

[Swissbob]

Rimac will Porsche-Anteil an Bugatti Rimac übernehmen - electrive.net

2021 hat der kroatische Elektro-Sportwagenhersteller Rimac die Mehrheit der Edelmarke Bugatti vom VW-Konzern übernommen. Die verbleibenden 45 Prozent liegen

www-electrive-net.translate.goog

Obviously both is possible.

I am curious what will happen eventually.

 

[Gor134]

Just look at how BMW handled this situation and that's how you know that Porsche and Audi were both extremely shortsighted in their decisions.

That's why BMWs not struggling and is leading currently. Sure they had a few issues too like no ICE 4er being planned and now as a result the current model is being extended to 2029, but that's a niche model at the end of the day, not a core model like Porsche's Macan and whatnot.

 

[klier]

Source: Auto Motor Sport and Manager Magazine a couple of months ago.

They wrote, that the Porsche families want to get rid of Rimac. The decision of Diess to sell Bugatti was wrong, that’s what they think now.

We‘ll see what will happen.

They can get rid of Rimac by selling the stock they have left to him. Other way around is not going to happen. The latest news is the actual opposite of what VAG might want or wanted.

They did the most retarded thing by selling a significant portion to Rimac, but it is what it is now.

Rimac Wants Full Control of Bugatti

Mate told Bloomberg in a recent interview, syndicated by Automotive News, that he has the investors necessary to take complete control of the joint venture, capable of buying Porsche's 45-percent stake in the tie-up. Mate allegedly offered the German automaker around €1 billion ($1.2 billion at today's exchange rate) for its share in April.

 

[klier]

Sure they had a few issues too like no ICE 4er being planned and now as a result the current model is being extended to 2029

The 4er coupe hardly sells like you say, so giving it the NK look is all it needs. Particularly because it only has the CLE to worry about. It's a dead segment.

 

[AndreB]

They invested in EVs instead of ICEs.

Everybody invested in EVs and we are talking about 6 billion for J1 platform which was shared with Audi, so its not like they all their money on that.

Indeed Porsche forgot to invest also in ICE cars, or they paid out the money to shareholders.

 

[Gor134]

The 4er coupe hardly sells like you say, so giving it the NK look is all it needs. Particularly because it only has the CLE to worry about. It's a dead segment.

I still think it would have sold better if it had a proper BMW notchback coupe shape like the E92 and prior gens (and even the 2er), as opposed to the lumpy, Mustang-esque fastback body it has right now.

I myself have always thought the M3 sedan looks sportier once the M3 coupe became an M4, and that's also a common thing I've hard from F80 and G80 M3 owners, that they picked the sedan cause the wider fenders pop more and they look sportier.

 

[AndreB]

Their sales numbers and profits in China have plummeted and the dwindling sales numbers of the Taycan has caused this mainly. But you right most of their model line up is aging and they have this dilemma just like other German brands, of going electric and still keeping ICE cars.

Lots of demand for EV's in China but no demand for Porsche's expensive EV's, a 200k Taycan or 150k Macan makes no sense if the performance is not 2x better than the competition.

Only a big Porsche fan would pay 30k for the Macan over better EVs like iX3 or GLC.

 

[Design FIRST]

I cannot help but feel a bit uneasy about German manufacturers backtracking on their BEV agenda. In the nearer term, fine. But should they become too entrenched, it could really blow up in their faces far sooner than anticipated. Just saying.

 

[klier]

I still think it would have sold better if it had a proper BMW notchback coupe shape like the E92 and prior gens (and even the 2er), as opposed to the lumpy, Mustang-esque fastback body it has right now.

That would be the 2er coupe if you want something like that.
I think the current 4er coupe looks sensational. Sexy and smooth.

Only a big Porsche fan would pay 30k for the Macan over better EVs like iX3 or GLC.

Yeah, pricing is absolute madness. Their biggest problem right now IMO. No car they make is worth it, not even the 911. But these prices of the other models which are rebadged VWs for ther most part....???? f#ck that shit.

 

[SKY]

I still think it would have sold better if it had a proper BMW notchback coupe shape like the E92 and prior gens (and even the 2er), as opposed to the lumpy, Mustang-esque fastback body it has right now.

I myself have always thought the M3 sedan looks sportier once the M3 coupe became an M4, and that's also a common thing I've hard from F80 and G80 M3 owners, that they picked the sedan cause the wider fenders pop more and they look sportier.

I would love the next 4er to look like the E92. That car was perfection. Absolute perfection in my eyes.

 

[klier]

I would love the next 4er to look like the E92. That car was perfection. Absolute perfection in my eyes.

The 2er is exactly that and almost the same size even.
But yeah the E92 is fantastic. Perfect in M3 spec.

 

[Design FIRST]

Only a big Porsche fan would pay 30k for the Macan over better EVs like iX3 or GLC.

Very good point. Although "better" is a fuzzy term. But the value-for-price consideration must certainly favour both the ix3 and GLC EQ. I love the Macan-E. But were I in the market, my money would be going to BMW. Or...a generously price-discounted pre-owned Macan-E.

 

[SKY]

Macan E is not even better looking than iX3 IMO.