Sportauto: BMW 335i vs Audi S4 (W211 E63 AMG vs RS6)

[Ozzie Bone]

The M suspension does make a bit of a difference, i mean you can even feel the difference just driving it normally. An E36 with a well matched springs/shocks can already waste standard cars out there. No idea why the above Aussie results seem to favour the S4 so much, maybe the guy can only drive awd?

I don't dispute the M suspension and tuning would make a positive difference - it just doesn't appear to materially help the 335i against the new S4 (with LSD) on the track.

I also don't think the Aussie result is an anomaly. I have read at least 3 different comparisons from different parts of the world and all of them have the S4 beating the 335i (RWD and Xdrive) with or without M tuning, by a very considerable margin.

The S4's adaptive damping and LSD appear to be a major factor to the S4 supremacy with the help of a few extra horsepower. Since these pieces of tech are not currently available on the 335i, it would be very interesting to see the result of a comparison of an S4 without the damping and LSD.

Any opinions?

 

[Sunny]

I believe the 335 in the Aussie test was an automatic.

 

[Ozzie Bone]

I believe the 335 in the Aussie test was an automatic.

Correct the 335i M-sport was a 6 speed auto and the S4 was the 7 speed s-tronic - dual clutch. The manual s4 is not being offered in Australia.

 

[Mr Robert]

I don't dispute the M suspension and tuning would make a positive difference - it just doesn't appear to materially help the 335i against the new S4 (with LSD) on the track.

I also don't think the Aussie result is an anomaly. I have read at least 3 different comparisons from different parts of the world and all of them have the S4 beating the 335i (RWD and Xdrive) with or without M tuning, by a very considerable margin.

The Aussie test sure show us the biggest difference to date, as far as I know.

Furthermore, the M-sport suspension makes a noticeable and surely measureable difference. But since SA choose to test the softest version of the 335i we will have to wait for confirmation. I guess both the M-sport chassis and the Performance chassis will prove both more sporty and effective.

0.3 seconds difference on Hockenheim while being equally fun to drive. That is a great feat for the 335i in its basic form.

 

[Ozzie Bone]

The Aussie test sure show us the biggest difference to date, as far as I know.

Yes and that was a comparison using a 335i M-sport, albeit an automatic vs s-tronic.

What is most pleasing for me is that BMW finally has some real competition - which will no doubt lead to further improvement. It pretty well had the game sewn up until the arrival of the new S4.

I am very much looking forward to an S5 with the S4 engine and tech - if that eventuates. Should prove a worthy adversary for the 335i M-sport coupe.

 

[Mr Robert]

I am very much looking forward to an S5 with the S4 engine and tech - if that eventuates. Should prove a worthy adversary for the 335i M-sport coupe.

Yes, so many differencies regarding the vechicles in the tests, the one in SA seems qiute comparable but still the worst chassis on the Beemer. Well, I guess we will never se a comparison when it has the best version, the Performance.

I agree, an S5 with S4 technology would be great!

 

[Zafiro]

I say it again, 335i can't touch the new S4 unless it get a proper diff/LSD. If you driven a 335i, traction isnt the best part with 335i during active driving.

 

[Mr Robert]

I say it again, 335i can't touch the new S4 unless it get a proper diff/LSD. If you driven a 335i, traction isnt the best part with 335i during active driving.

Well, looking at the SA test, the difference of 0.3 seconds shows that a proper LSD is not needed, the M-sport chassis or even better the Performance version would do, but I agree, an LSD would be great. But as BMW does not want to take the 335i too close to the M3 and keep the LSD only for the M versions (if the 335i would have had an optional LSD, then the work on making the M3 special would have been much harder), this is as good as it will get.

 

[Ozzie Bone]

Well, looking at the SA test, the difference of 0.3 seconds shows that a proper LSD is not needed, the M-sport chassis or even better the Performance version would do, but I agree, an LSD would be great. But as BMW does not want to take the 335i too close to the M3 and keep the LSD only for the M versions (if the 335i would have had an optional LSD, then the work on making the M3 special would have been much harder), this is as good as it will get.

After reviewing the beginning of the thread I have two questions:

1. were the vehicles tested autos or manual? and

2. did the S4 have adaptive dampers and LSD?

One potential explanation for the S4 dominating the Aussie tests more convincingly than Hokkenheim was that the car tested in Australia did have the LSD and the vehicle at the Hokkenhiem track did not. Anybody know?

 

[klier]

Make the 335i an M sport, give it some performance parts and 326 hp, and it will eat the Audi S4. A standard 335i without anything already is about as fast as the S4.

 

[Ozzie Bone]

Make the 335i an M sport, give it some performance parts and 326 hp, and it will eat the Audi S4. A standard 335i without anything already is about as fast as the S4.

You obviously can't read or don't want to.

Everytime the S4 has been put up against the BMW 335i (including the M-sport) the S4 has dusted the BMW.

We are talking about standard production vehicles - no contest.

Tuning packages are now being offered for the S4 - so your argument has no merit unless you can provide independent verification. Good luck

 

[Mr Robert]

After reviewing the beginning of the thread I have two questions:

1. were the vehicles tested autos or manual? and

2. did the S4 have adaptive dampers and LSD?

One potential explanation for the S4 dominating the Aussie tests more convincingly than Hokkenheim was that the car tested in Australia did have the LSD and the vehicle at the Hokkenhiem track did not. Anybody know?

Both cars were manual and the Audi had the sport differential.

 

[Mr Robert]

Everytime the S4 has been put up against the BMW 335i (including the M-sport) the S4 has dusted the BMW.

We are talking about standard production vehicles - no contest.

BMW Performance are OEM parts. The Sportauto test was by no means a dusting off, especially not considering that the Audi was 9,000 euros more.

 

[Ozzie Bone]

Both cars were manual and the Audi had the sport differential.

Thanks for that.

Obviously the manual versions are much closer than the autos - which helps to explain the ifference in the Aussie tests.

 

[Mr Robert]

Thanks for that.

Obviously the manual versions are much closer than the autos - which helps to explain the ifference in the Aussie tests.

I agree.

 

[klier]

We are talking about standard production vehicles - no contest.

Tuning packages are now being offered for the S4 - so your argument has no merit unless you can provide independent verification. Good luck

BMW Performance is standard production. And if you test a 335i against S4, imo Performance is a must. Otherwise they should test A4 3.2 vs 335i
As for the Sportauto test...that's the funny part...the SLOWEST 335i is about exactly as fast as an S4, proving my point.

If we start with real tuning, S4 does not stand a change against 335i twin turbo. I can name some sick tuners for 335i.

 

[PanterroR]

If you driven a 335i, traction isnt the best part with 335i during active driving.

Is this a new trademark filling...?

 

[Zafiro]

Well, looking at the SA test, the difference of 0.3 seconds shows that a proper LSD is not needed.

Robert, this is one single test. After the Sportauto test there been several other tests between them and the S4 own the 335i, both on a track and up to 200km/h.
A LSD is very much indeed needed.

 

[ACE]

BMW Performance is standard production. .

Where is BMW Performance "standard production" for a 335i? No details on pricing or when the kit becomes available were included in the press release at Geneva. I haven't seen any further info. Where can I buy one?

And if you test a 335i against S4, imo Performance is a must.

Yes, otherwise the BMW will lose, as it has done in every test done so far. I understand that such results are simply not allowed in Klier's BMW obsessed world but I haven't seen any tests with the performance kit 335i (probably 'cos you can't actually buy one yet!) vs S4. Are there any? 20hp and still no LSD is hardly going to make that much difference, imo. But I am willing to wait and see.

As for the Sportauto test...that's the funny part...the SLOWEST 335i is about exactly as fast as an S4, proving my point.

Did we read the same Sportauto test? Or did Sportauto publish a separate test for BMW fanboys?

If we start with real tuning, S4 does not stand a change against 335i twin turbo. I can name some sick tuners for 335i.

There is literally no limit to what can be achieved with unlimited funds for tuning & parts but that is hardly a good basis for comparing the stock versions of the cars.

 

[Mr Robert]

Where is BMW Performance "standard production" for a 335i? No details on pricing or when the kit becomes available were included in the press release at Geneva. I haven't seen any further info. Where can I buy one?

Here is the catalogue: Original BMW Accessories : Catalogue downloads

These parts are needed to make the S4 and 335i a bit more on the level, both in parts and price.