Tesla under Criminal Investigation!😲


Well , there is some sort of truth in this. But also no.

Tesla never sold an FSD. They always stated that "it's coming soon" .

Tesla selling parts of FSD as "enhanced AP" with still too much money ( if you ask me ) , yes . It's bad. But it's not false advertising.

Simple AP works fine. I drive my mom's M3 from time to time, with simple AP and works very well.

Summon , smart summon , autopark , auto lane change , never ever would worth 6000usd , IMO.

Who knows what's inside Tesla HQ regarding FSD and all this drama.

I feel like some of this puffy americans that get offended by everything feel like Tesla is their friend or something. Tesla is a corporation.And they are looking for money
 
I think this article sums up all the nuances quite well...


Tesla’s Full Self-Driving technology may be a failure, Tesla lawyers admit — but it’s not a fraud.

The electric car company is facing a class-action lawsuit from Autopilot and Full Self-Driving (FSD) technology customers. They claim they were ripped off, duped by statements from co-founder and Chief Executive Elon Musk and marketing materials from Tesla over the last six years suggesting full-fledged autonomous driving was imminent. No Tesla on the road today is capable of full self-driving, and yet Tesla sells what it calls a Full Self-Driving Capability for $15,000.

In its defense, Tesla lawyers said that “mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud.” That argument is contained in a motion to dismiss the case that was filed last week in U.S. District Court in San Francisco.

The main plaintiff is Briggs Matsko, a resident of Rancho Murieta, Calif. If the case goes forward, it could lead to deposition of Tesla employees who helped develop the technology and reveal what Musk knew and didn’t know about its true capabilities when he made numerous forecasts over the years — including the prediction that there would be a million Tesla robotaxis on the road by the end of 2020, that customers could make $30,000 a year hiring them out, and that their cars would appreciate in value.

Tesla lawyers are attempting to prevent that information from going public. The motion to dismiss the case rests mainly on Tesla’s contention that the papers customers signed when they bought their cars obligate them to individually file claims through the private arbitration system.

A public trial allows for customers to file as a large group, known as a class; arbitration means each customer would be on his or her own. While a public trial could reveal testimony from current or former Tesla employees on the state of Tesla’s automated technology development at any given time, arbitration would keep that testimony secret.

Thousands of lawsuits have been filed against Tesla and Musk. The private arbitration move is often Tesla’s first reaction against public court lawsuits. The case of Cristina Balan, as chronicled by The Times, is perhaps the most famous example. A former Tesla engineer, she claims she was defamed by Tesla in 2017, damaging her professional reputation, but through a series of procedural arguments Tesla lawyers have kept the case out of public court.

The FSD fraud suit runs through a litany of claims and promises made by Musk and Tesla about automated technology that will be familiar to anyone who closely follows Musk.

They include a 2016 video that purports to show a Tesla driving itself through the streets of Palo Alto with complete autonomy. Before the video rolls, with the Rolling Stones’ “Paint It Black” as background music, a message reads, “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not driving anything. The car is driving itself.”

Tesla workers later revealed that the video was fabricated, done in multiple takes, with the driving system’s failures removed, including a crash into a fence. The video remains on Tesla’s website.

The lawsuit highlights the multiple revisions of Musk’s statements over the years that full autonomy would be achieved in three months, or six months, or the end of the year (in any given year) or the next year.

In its motion to dismiss, Tesla lawyers note that Musk often has said regulatory approval will be necessary before actual autonomy can be deployed. But neither Musk nor the lawyers say which regulators they’re talking about.

“Tesla would need no federal approval to deploy an automated driving system in its current vehicles,” said Bryant Walker Smith, a law professor who specializes in autonomous vehicles at the University of South Carolina. “Tesla would need state approval in California and a small number of other states, but it has not sought that approval. Tesla would need approval in Europe, but it has not sought that approval.”

Regulatory agencies have been investigating Tesla’s automated technology for years. Several fatalities have been linked to Autopilot software. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has several investigations open, including a probe into why Teslas seem to disproportionately crash into emergency vehicles parked on the roadside. The agency has set no public timeline for a determination.

The California Department of Motor Vehicles says it’s looking into the matter as well. While Musk was making bold predictions about full self-driving, the DMV and Tesla were trading emails in 2019 and 2020 that confirm the company’s Full Self-Driving mode, also known as City Streets, was a Level 2 technology. The emails were released under a public records request by legal document publisher Plainsite. Under the Level 2 label, Tesla’s system is no more capable of autonomous driving than similar driver-assistance packages sold by General Motors, Ford and other companies.

With a Level 2 system, a car company isn’t required to report crashes to the DMV. If Tesla were experimenting with fully driverless technology, the law would require such reports.

A tour of YouTube shows that Tesla is experimenting with technology that goes beyond mere driver assistance, with untrained customers behind the wheel. The DMV requires autonomous car developers to use trained test drivers.

In some videos, the Tesla FSD cars make turns, stop for traffic lights and avoid pedestrians. In other videos, they drive into oncoming trucks in the wrong lane, steer toward pedestrians, and in one case, mistake the moon for a yellow traffic signal.

DMV regulations on autonomous vehicles include rules that bar a company from marketing a vehicle as autonomous when it’s not. The DMV began a “review” of Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Capability under that rule in May 2021. That led to a preliminary complaint filed against Tesla last July. The agency says the case has been in the “discovery” phase for the last four months, and declines to state how long that phase will last.

DMV director Steve Gordon has refused to speak with The Times or any other media outlet on the subject of autonomous vehicle regulation for the last two years. Tesla lawyers did not respond to a request for comment. Musk did not answer a tweet seeking comment. Tesla disbanded its media relations team several years ago.
 
I don't think FSD will be a failure. The future is heading there sooner or later.

It will just take more time.

By the way , does anyone remember how many things Tesla went left and right? Tesla wireless charger? Swappable battery? Etc etc etc.

Congrats for them to have bolds to get new things going on. Some may failure , some may not. It's still a baby company if you compare it to almost anyone else
 
Tesla employees lol'ing at privacy rights and Musk stans don't have a problem with it..... because Doge Karen deflecting from massive lawsuit.

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Tesla employees lol'ing at privacy rights and Musk stans don't have a problem with it..... because Doge Karen deflecting from massive lawsuit.

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Any proof ?

"Reuters wasn't able to obtain any photo or video because no employee kept any" , but we must believe it , because....? Really ?

For such an active and pretty experienced user of GCF , to believe anything that you read on the internet , because , "if it's on the internet , it's true" , I don't know man...

This is the level right now. ANYTHING that has "Tesla" in it's name/title , brings attention and views. Just look at yourself: You post a dumb link , with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF , ZERO , NADA , and after that , you criticize me and others for being "fanboys" . And when we point out that YES , Tesla titles are "the thing" , most of you look in the other direction , because we are the conspirators, not you guys posting dumb things.

Jeez...
 
Any proof ?

"Reuters wasn't able to obtain any photo or video because no employee kept any" , but we must believe it , because....? Really ?

For such an active and pretty experienced user of GCF , to believe anything that you read on the internet , because , "if it's on the internet , it's true" , I don't know man...

This is the level right now. ANYTHING that has "Tesla" in it's name/title , brings attention and views. Just look at yourself: You post a dumb link , with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF , ZERO , NADA , and after that , you criticize me and others for being "fanboys" . And when we point out that YES , Tesla titles are "the thing" , most of you look in the other direction , because we are the conspirators, not you guys posting dumb things.

Jeez...
The story is front page news on Reuters.com. A link was provided to the story.
This is common, daily practice to post links to other sources. Evidence doesn’t need to be provided.

Instead, it’s you who contributes nothing to the discussion except to berate someone for posting a legitimate, newsworthy article.
Wind your neck in.
 
The story is front page news on Reuters.com. A link was provided to the story.
This is common, daily practice to post links to other sources. Evidence doesn’t need to be provided.

Instead, it’s you who contributes nothing to the discussion except to berate someone for posting a legitimate, newsworthy article.
Wind your neck in.
Oh , so if a article is posted by some media , it's legitimate , even if there is NO ( ZERO , NADA ) proof , right?

Congrats , GCF Moderator


Edit : https://www.reuters.com/article/crypto-currency-tesla-reddit-idINKBN2AA06H

Reuters , and it's very legitimate sources : Ex-employees and Reddit users...LMAO

Edit 2 :
Instead, it’s you who contributes nothing to the discussion

I am contributing to the discussion -> I am saying that if you post an article with NO ( ZERO , NADA , NIENTE ) proof , it's probably bull***t !

And people like you should feel ashamed that don't let their cheap hate for Tesla down a little , and keep it real on a "trustworthy" German Car Forum. But hey , cheap hate is cheap hate...Keep doing your wonderful job
 
For such an active and pretty experienced user of GCF , to believe anything that you read on the internet , because , "if it's on the internet , it's true" , I don't know man...

This is the level right now. ANYTHING that has "Tesla" in it's name/title , brings attention and views. Just look at yourself: You post a dumb link , with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF , ZERO , NADA , and after that , you criticize me and others for being "fanboys" . And when we point out that YES , Tesla titles are "the thing" , most of you look in the other direction , because we are the conspirators, not you guys posting dumb things.

Jeez...

Ha, yep, based on the replies from the Muskophiles on Twitter that's about the reaction I expected.

Personally I'd regard Reuters as relatively trust worthy, at least to the point that they'd make some effort to verify if the story had a factual base or not... and unlike the torrent of Musk related shit that could be posted, this is relevant to owners of Tesla vehicles, perhaps even yourself.

For me, the reason to criticise Phoney Stark's fanbase is borne out well here. People (well, his fans) will take Musk's comments as bonafide and trust worthy, despite either a lack of evidence, or even evidence to the contrary... yet when something or someone is critical of their Memelord and Self-saviour, all of a sudden its Proof this, and Evidence that.

... the thing is, we already know that some cars are videoing everything, not just Tesla's, it's a fact that people are reviewing what vehicles see. It's no big stretch to imagine that data is abused, and that's not even on Musk (directly at least), if his employees are dick heads and did this of their own accord then the reasonable course of action is to investigate and deal with it... so far ... no comment from Musk, no comment from Tesla... because they don't have a PR department... which of course their fanboy's think is wonderful and disruptive and all that other shit.

... and why is the Twitter logo the dogecoin logo anyway?
 
Behold, a new chapter in 5D chess...


Elon Musk ordered to ‘stop using deepfake excuse’ in fatal Tesla crash case

Elon Musk has been ordered to give a deposition in a lawsuit blaming Tesla's driverless technology for a fatal crash after the carmaker suggested his public statements about autopilot could have been deepfaked.

Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Evette D Pennypacker said she found Tesla's argument for why its billionaire chief executive should not testify “deeply troubling to the court”.

The company had argued that it could not vouch for the authenticity of videotaped interviews which show Mr Musk pushing its driver-assistance technology, saying it is possible some of them were digitally altered.

The judge wrote: “Their position is that because Mr Musk is famous and might be more of a target for deep fakes, his public statements are immune.

“In other words, Mr Musk, and others in his position, can simply say whatever they like in the public domain, then hide behind the potential for their recorded statements being a deep fake to avoid taking ownership of what they did actually say and do.”

Judge Pennypacker said Mr Musk can be questioned for up to three hours about certain statements he made about Tesla's assisted driving features.

His testimony would add to hundreds of hours of depositions already given by other witnesses in the case, which has been scheduled to go to trial this year.

The lawsuit was brought by the family of Walter Huang, an Apple engineer who died during his morning commute when his 2017 Model X veered into a concrete barrier on a highway about 45 minutes south of San Francisco. The family claims the Autopilot system malfunctioned and steered the car into the barrier.
 
Impressive that someone took the time to figure this out.


Breaking: NHTSA Petition Claims Tesla Sudden Unintended Acceleration Is Real (but Fixable)


New information received by the NHTSA shows that sudden unintended acceleration events with Tesla EVs were real and not driver errors. The report explains in detail what caused the cars to accelerate even when the accelerator pedal was not pressed. It also offers recommendations to solve this issue once and for all.

For quite some time, Tesla electric vehicles have been accused by drivers of accelerating out of control without anyone touching the accelerator pedal. Still, investigations have concluded that almost every single case was caused by the drivers inadvertently pressing the accelerator pedal instead of the brake. Chinese Tesla owners have got so far that they installed cameras in the foot area of their cars to prove they did not press the accelerator should a sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) event occur.

Safety bodies in several countries opened investigations into these crashes. Many were closed after Tesla provided evidence that the accelerator pedal was pressed all the way down in all these cases. The NHTSA also investigated Tesla SUA reports, but in January 2021, the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) denied the petition filed a year earlier.

According to the ODI Resume for the DP 20-001 investigation, no evidence has been identified that would support opening a defect investigation into SUA in the subject vehicles. In every instance in which event data was available for review by ODI, the evidence showed that SUA crashes were caused by pedal misapplication.

However, on June 29, 2023, ODI received a new petition requesting a reevaluation of the decision to deny DP20-001. The document explains that intermittent high electrical current demands on the vehicles' 12VDC systems may have caused some or all of the incidents examined by ODI in DP20-001. The petitioner based their information on a review of open-source research analyzing the Tesla Model 3 inverter design.

ODI petition: All Teslas are prone to sudden unintended acceleration (SUA)
Based on this, a faulty inverter design creates conditions where negative spikes in Tesla's low-voltage system can be interpreted as a full acceleration command even though the driver did not touch the accelerator. This is possible because the inverter uses a voltage reference derived from the 12-volt system to calibrate the accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor. It also explains why the logs show the accelerator was pressed all the way down, even though drivers claimed it didn't touch the accelerator.

If you were wondering what causes the negative spikes in the low-voltage system, the petition (attached below) is very detailed in engineering data. Apparently, the steering assist system uses a very high current motor powered by the 12-volt system. Because Teslas are heavy vehicles, the driver assist motor needs in excess of 100 amps to turn the wheels when the car is stationary. This causes the 12-volt system to drop voltage to near zero volts for several hundred microseconds.

This in itself does not cause sudden unintended acceleration. However, if a recalibration is initiated during this interval, then an incorrect calibration voltage will be produced that is very close to zero volts. Based on the researcher's findings, it will last until another ADC calibration is performed, which may be minutes later. Once the calibration is performed with faulty data, it can cause a spike equivalent to pressing the accelerator pedal all the way down.

What's worse is that the incorrectly increased sensor signals will be sent via the CAN bus to the vehicle logs, causing Tesla and NHTSA to conclude that the driver caused the sudden increase in torque by stepping on the accelerator pedal. But in this case, the sudden acceleration was caused not by the driver stepping on the accelerator pedal but by a random superposition of a negative-going voltage spike (which is about 100 microseconds long), and the sampling time of the analog-to-digital converter (which is about 10 microseconds long). This random superposition explains the low occurrence rate of sudden acceleration in Tesla vehicles.

Tesla could solve the problem easily
The researchers went even further and managed to verify their theory by deliberately inputting the wrong calibration voltage into the inverter. When they entered 0,28 volts or less instead of the expected 1.65 volts (which can happen when the 12-volt supply dips briefly to 2.14 volts), the APP sensor would read values equivalent to flooring the accelerator pedal. This causes sudden unintended acceleration without the driver pressing on the accelerator pedal.

The study also offers two solutions to this problem. The first involves adding a second 12-volt supply line with its own battery and DC/DC converter. This should be used only for powering the APP sensors and the ADCs to provide clean power to these functions. The second solution is modifying the calibration routine software by testing the calibration voltage before using it. The latter is by far easier and cheaper to implement in existing vehicles, as it only requires a software update.

According to the petition, all Tesla vehicles are affected, although the Model S and Model X use a slightly different DSP controller chip. NHTSA investigation mentions that 1.8 million vehicles are part of this new investigation. The findings represent a welcome relief for those who reported SUA events and were told they caused them. Unfortunately, for some people might be too late.
 
How do you know they figured it out?

It seems they undertook a fairly sensible approach in deriving their conclusions, and demonstrated their findings by reproducing the effect. Paper attached - by all means, deconstruct it, it's an ongoing investigation and I'm sure the regulatory bodies involved would welcome your expert input.


Or is it just wishful thinking on your part given fervid biases for car brands?

Lol.

Sunny, I had no part in this research, it's conclusions, or bringing it to the internet. If you're suggesting any bias on my part in what I've posted, you should probably explain how those 10 words that were my contribution to the post, in any way skew the findings posted. Do you disagree that it's impressive someone took the time to figure it out, or where you just happy with HuRpDerP ChINeSe DrIVeRs! ?

Honestly, I was expecting, "but all manufacturers have SUA problems" from you (or Cashmere, because obvs), which is perhaps fair, but the move to dismissal based on random internet persons brand affinity... straight away... ?... Musk Stans, man...
 

Attachments

It seems they undertook a fairly sensible approach in deriving their conclusions, and demonstrated their findings by reproducing the effect. Paper attached - by all means, deconstruct it, it's an ongoing investigation and I'm sure the regulatory bodies involved would welcome your expert input.
I don't profess to have the expertise to judge it's accuracy one way or another. I doubt you do either, but yet you claim that they figured it out. Hence, my question, how do you know?

All I know is this article per which there are those who claim the paper is a hit piece - https://insideevs.com/news/675810/nhtsa-investigating-tesla-unintented-acceleration-one-more-time/. And just to be clear, I don't know if those claims themselves are accurate either. I don't believe almost anything I read on the Internet about Tesla - good or bad. Guessing NHTSA will sort it out one way or another and I will wait for that.

Do you disagree that it's impressive someone took the time to figure it out,
Before I am impressed, I ask again, how do you already know they figured it out?

but the move to dismissal based on random internet persons brand affinity
I am not dismissing the paper (I don't have the expertise to). I am dismissing your premature claim that they figured it out. Based on your biases. Or are you denying your rabid hatred for Tesla?


ps. I don't know what gave you the impression I am on first name basis with you? I am not. So please spare me the personal appeals.
 
"Tesla directors agree to return $735 million following claims they were massively overpaid

In a lawsuit, shareholders claimed they were massively overpaying themselves.

1689684281676.jpg


Steve Dent @stevetdent|July 18, 2023 6:55 AM

"Elon Musk, Larry Ellison and other current and former members of Tesla's board of directors will return $735 million to settle claims that they massively overpaid themselves, Reuters has reported. The deal wraps up a saga that started in 2020 stemming from a lawsuit filed by a police and firefighter retirement fund challenging stock options granted to Tesla's board starting in 2017. Directors also agreed not to receive compensation for 2021, 2022 and 2023, and change the way compensation is calculated.

Tesla's current board includes Elon Musk, his brother Kimbal, Fox News mogul James Murdoch, Airbnb co-founder Joe Gebbia and former Tesla CTO JB Straubel. The case is separate from a lawsuit filed by shareholders against a $56 billion compensation package awarded to CEO Elon Musk.

The Police and Fire Retirement System of the City of Detroit accused Tesla's board of giving itself unfair and excessive compensation in the form of 11 million stock options between 2017 and 2020, saying it grossly exceeded norms for a corporate board. The $735 million settlement will be paid back to Tesla in what's called a "derivative lawsuit" — the largest ever awarded by Delaware's Court of Chancerty, according to Reuters.
Tesla argued that stock options were used to ensure Director's incentives were aligned with investor goals. Tesla has yet to comment on the affair, but in court documents, said that it agreed to settle to eliminate the risk of future litigation.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk is fighting a separate lawsuit to defend his $56 billion pay package. It was brought by shareholder Richard Tornette, who claimed that "the largest compensation grant in human history" was given to Musk, even though he didn't focus entirely on Tesla. In 2020, he received the first of 12 $700 million payments as part of that package."

 
Managing directors massively overpaying themselves? Not a problem. The group of managing directors pictured below also massively overpaid themselves, and their car maker is still around, isn't it @Matski?

PAY-MAIN-mg-rover.jpg
 
Managing directors massively overpaying themselves? Not a problem. The group of managing directors pictured below also massively overpaid themselves, and their car maker is still around, isn't it @Matski?

The ineptitude of British car manufacturers runs much deeper than the bosses simply over paying themselves.
 
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NOT Criminal but a huge recall apparently.
 
Elon Musk's Tesla recalls two million cars in US over Autopilot defect

By Tom Gerken & Chris Vallance
Technology reporters

13 December 2023, 12:19 GMT
Updated 1 hour ago


"Tesla is recalling more than two million cars after the US regulator found its driver assistance system, Autopilot, was partly defective.
It follows a two year investigation into crashes which occurred when the tech was in use.

The recall applies to almost every Tesla sold in the US since the Autopilot feature was launched in 2015.

Tesla, owned by billionaire Elon Musk, said it would send a software update "over the air" to fix the issue.

The update happens automatically, and does not require a visit to a dealership or garage, but is still referred to by the US regulator as a recall.

The BBC has approached the UK Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency to ask how Tesla drivers in the UK will be affected.

Autopilot is meant to help with steering, acceleration and braking - but, despite the name, the car still requires driver input.
Tesla's software is supposed to make sure that drivers are paying attention and that the feature is only in use in appropriate conditions, such as driving on highways.
But the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said a two-year investigation of 956 Tesla crashes found that "the prominence and scope of the feature's controls may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse".

"Automated technology holds great promise for improving safety but only when it is deployed responsibly", the NHTSA wrote, adding it would continue to monitor the software once it was updated.
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment.

According to the recall notice, the company did not concur with the agency's analysis but agreed to add new features to resolve the concerns, including additional checks on turning on the self-driving features.
The recall comes a week after a former Tesla employee told the BBC he believed the technology was not safe.
Lukasz Krupski, speaking after winning the Blueprint Prize which recognises whistleblowers, told the BBC: "I don't think the hardware is ready and the software is ready".

"It affects all of us because we are essentially experiments in public roads", he claimed.

Reacting to the news of the recall Mr Krupski told the BBC it was "a step in the right direction" but pointed out it was not just a problem in the US.
"The hardware is the same in all the Teslas in the US, China etc.", he said."

Continues in link.
 

Tesla

Tesla, Inc. is an American multinational automotive and clean energy company headquartered in Austin, Texas. It designs, manufactures, and sells electric vehicles, stationary battery energy storage devices from home to grid-scale, solar panels and solar shingles, and related products and services. Incorporated in July 2003 by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning as Tesla Motors, the company's name is a tribute to inventor and electrical engineer Nikola Tesla. In February 2004 Elon Musk joined as the company's largest shareholder and in 2008 he was named CEO.
Official website: Tesla

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