BMW scraps plans for R8 rival

[330CIZHP]

///Motorsport No more. ///Marketing is today's theme. The business case for a BMW supercar should be the fact that it struts what BMW can do. It shows the competition of how the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'(Not sure this is the case anymore) is still the pinnacle of a true drivers car. It's like BMW is standing trying to become the next GM with mass produced this and that while the competition embrace the fact that there are still true enthusiasts out there that will spend their hard earned money to have the latest and greatest.

Deep down, I'm still in love with how well my e92 drove and how balanced it was and how connected it felt. That's gone, and I want it back.

Yeah, 'marketing' is the keyword and it is also the term that gets many people all riled up. But, really when this guy's comments are vindication of how M division has completely done a 180 degree where he completely ignores the 4500 lbs weight of the F10 M5 and continues to ramble about how the 0 - 60 mph makes it a 4 door supercar competitor, which is what he continously insists on implying.

Also, contrary to what he claims, the lateral acceleration numbers are nowhere near the supercar territory nor are the slalom numbers. Then put it together with lap times and also the fact that the driving experience almost unanimously has been diluted compared to how raw and edgy the E60 M5 was, he is completely talking out of his other end.

 

[mohsin]

I just thought about something. This official info reminds me this:

"No Z4 M"
"No M SUV"
"No M3 CSL"
"No 1 Series M"

And then BAAAM! Surprise!

I mean, there are rumors, discusions, speculation,"insider" infos, and then official declining. Shorly after, a surprise. Could this hint we are soon going to see a BMW M halocar? I am not talking about the i8 which is not a BMW M but a BMW i. Let's us wait and see, but 10 years we hear "supercar coming", and nothing. Now they officially said there WON'T be any, we could be in for a surprise.

I think it's part of B.M.W policy to throw surprises at us ........I truly hope and think that the scales are tipping towards An M halo car...

 

[mohsin]

Sorry, I don't think BMW can build a super car; they lack a pair and the know-how to do it. The business-case excuse is so lame BMW needs to come up with some creative-excuse, maybe creative-marketing can come to the rescue here.

Please correct me if wrong but The BMW M cars were very successful on the racing circuit in their racing cars' program in the 70's,what happened after wards : that they lost focus on their exclusive racing program M car's and started focusing on integrating the M technology with their other cars for eg the M535i,so I kinda disagree that BMW doesnt have the skill or know how but I agree that the buisness excuse is pretty lame

 

[mohsin]

There is a specification for a project that BMW M would like to do , unfortunately they need the CFRP resources from BMWi to do so and that wont happen until CFRP is in mass volume production. Once CFRP is being mass produced and the i cars are on the market it will help to bring costs down significantly in order to implement it across the group and M to achieve their vision. To do so now would mean such a project would not make any money so for now there is no business case .

Can you provide more details about the specifications on the Project

 

[klier]

Sorry, I don't think BMW can build a super car; they lack a pair and the know-how to do it. The business-case excuse is so lame BMW needs to come up with some creative-excuse, maybe creative-marketing can come to the rescue here.

Incredible to read such ignorance.

 

[Levi68]

Incredible to read such ignorance.

I think he is kidding. If not it shows why BMW could need a supercar, because the generations have changed and the new one does not have the true knowlege of BMW as we have. Maybe it plays no role for us, and we also won't be able to afford one, but when you look at Audi, the succes it very clearly helped by the R8, and most of the ones that don't buy a BMW buy and Audi. I don't care about howmany cars BMW sells, but rather that they build good cars, and for this they also need money so it is better for them to sell well if they don't want to get bought by VAG.

Can you give more details on this new project ?

The projects are M One, a supercar with TT V8 or I6, and M Two, a type of Cayman rival powered by a TT I4 or even I3. No decision on whether mid-front or mid-rear engine which also is said to be dooable.

 

[Deckhook]

I think he is kidding. If not it shows why BMW could need a supercar, because the generations have changed and the new one does not have the true knowlege of BMW as we have. Maybe it plays no role for us, and we also won't be able to afford one, but when you look at Audi, the succes it very clearly helped by the R8, and most of the ones that don't buy a BMW buy and Audi. I don't care about howmany cars BMW sells, but rather that they build good cars, and for this they also need money so it is better for them to sell well if they don't want to get bought by VAG.

Not every brand needs a supercar, Volkswagen, Skoda or Seat don't need nor would they really benefit from such a model but for a company with true performance ambitions like BMW then a supercar would help its overall profile simply because it shows off what they are capable of and how much importance they place on performance at all levels.

The 'JOY' advertisement they have been running recently doesn't seem to portray the same performance credentials as their 'Ultimate Driving Machine' once did. Even this i8 sportscar portrays the impressive of performance through greener means rather than performance at all costs and even then it's performance will hardly set the world on fire.

IMHO BMW really could benefit from some sort of a supercar program.

 

[Mr Robert]

IMHO BMW really could benefit from some sort of a supercar program.

Maybe when they were all "Ultimate Driving Machine", but now, when eco friendliness and design is more important, a car á la R8 is not needed anymore. What would make more sense would be a hybrid/electric sort of performance oriented 6-series sedan version.

 

[Deckhook]

^ Boring plus I am not convinced that hybrid technology is good enough yet to offer the kind of performance/economy vs price to compete with modern diesels of which BMW are at the forefront.

Let the green party hug the i8 and let the rest of us hark over a proper supercar.

 

[bmwownage]

they're going to start losing the plot if this continues imo. the whole point is that they only do stuff that costs little which returns a lot, and forgoing models/programs that have a lower return, but which may improve brand image.
Honestly, current generation or car die hard fans still have a sense that BMW is a sporty luxury brand, those who are not car fanatics, sees those huge 5series GT's and X5's X3's, and super elegant F01/F10's and it's hard to convince them the brand was about "ultimate driving machine". Yes i think they have been successful up till now, milking the cow, the cow being the sporty luxury image that they have built up since the beginning, but it's going to fade for sure if they continue.
For example, in early 2000's, i was very proud to drive a BMW because they were in F1, and famous for having the most powerful engine (even though it had nothing to do with my car), then there was the E60 M5 with some F1 inspired V10 in it, and that was heck of a car they built based on the probably loss making F1 engine program (well, loss = marketing expense). and then they quit. And now being a BMW fan i just keep telling myself that BMW is still the ultimate driving machine, it probably still is, but with much less of a lead. I mean honestly, even if building a supercar isn't very profitable (i doubt it'd be a loss, people are going to fight for it since it's gona be the first BMW supercar for a long time), you still do it jst for the sake of brand image, attracting new customers and making existing customers feel better. M versions of "most" models are great sport/track cars, but you can't compare with real supercars, and i think supercar is an icon of a capable manufacturer, even Lexus got one ffs. you can't piss your fans off for too much longer BMW, unless you want fans who doesn't care about your heritage, but really, heritage is an important element that makes the brand special, something that Audi for example relatively lacks, and i hope they won't give it up.

 

[Deckhook]

heritage is an important element that makes the brand special, something that Audi for example relatively lacks, and i hope they won't give it up.

How did you come to the conclusion that Audi lacks heritage?

The brand might have been rekindled by Volkswagen but as a motor manufacturer it is actually older than BMW and second only to Benz in Germany, plus it's recent Motorsport heritage is second to none, who else has won so many LeMans titles in as few a years.

Though I do agree that BMW need to get back on track or it's fans will look else where.

 

[klier]

How did you come to the conclusion that Audi lacks heritage?

Audi is invented by VAG marketing. Better for you to accept that, but it will be hard for a VAG fanboy like you.

Though I do agree that BMW need to get back on track or it's fans will look else where.

It's fans, who have always bought all those super cars BMW has made all the time you mean? Yeah, it's going to hurt them [rolls_eyes]

Funny btw, how you always turn up in these threads where there some random people are complaining that there's no super car from BMW. Trying to add fuel to the fire in subtle ways

 

[Deckhook]

Klier, please stop derailing a thread where we all are discussing things in a well mannered way.

May I suggest reading up on its history.

P.S.
Why not channel your anger away from me and direct it at this debate because as I diehard fan you are sure to want BMW to make a supercar as much as the rest of us.

 

[Levi68]

Klier, I don't understand you. You seem to have no personal opinion and always use BMW arguments, really never yours. I know if BMW ever makes a supercar you'll be the most happy person in the world, you'll have even more to brag about BMW. You are free to think what you want and have your own opinion, but please your own opinion and don't just blindly repeat BMW word. Please take off your pair of BMW goggles.

The only valid argument against a BMW Supercar is cost. But with all BMW earned for all these years even troughout the crisis, they can afford it. The supercar market is a niche market, and BMW can't leave a niche without having its own product in it, except the supercar niche.

 

[Sunny]

BMW is not loosing the plot cause it doesn't have a supercar, it is loosing the plot cause it's main stream cars are going soft. The sad irony is now they will probably need a supercar to maintain some faux "sporty" image like some other manufacturer's.

Having said that I would love to see BMW make a super car, but not for the same reason most give here - image. But cause I want to see what they are capable of. BMW arguably make some of the best engines/drivelines in the business but they always end up in vehicles compromised by daily usability and cost - and that is fine... actually, not just fine, I am glad they do that cause not everyone can afford or live with a super car. But for once it would be nice to see what the engines/drivelines are capable of in a vehicle free of the shackles of daily usability and pracicality.

 

[q5s]

heritage is an important element that makes the brand special, something that Audi for example relatively lacks

bmw fanboy never fails to crack me up
well over 100 years of motorsport history, when audi was winning races bmw was making motorcycles
you must also think le mans is a perfume, dtm is a clothing line and 1981 was during the early medival era
enjoy your diesel automatic electric i8 (washing)machine, you deserve it

 

[deity]

bmw fanboy never fails to crack me up
well over 100 years of motorsport history, when audi was winning races bmw was making motorcycles
you must also think le mans is a perfume, dtm is a clothing line and 1981 was during the early medival era
enjoy your diesel automatic electric i8 (washing)machine, you deserve it

No one here is denying the MOTORSPORT heritage of Audi. Like you said, their successes at Le Mans is nothing to be sniffed at; in fact, they are quite commendable and may even best BMW's. However, the type of heritage Audi lacks is a vehicle that was really spectacular in its time. BMW has had spectacular 3,5, and 7 series, while MB has always had their flagship S-Class. When you think of the history of Audi...there's no car I know of (excuse my ignorance), other than the previous A8 that really strikes me as heritage-worthy.

It is interesting that BMW decides not to make a supercar, but like many others have said... the Ultimate Driving Machine isn't a supercar no one can afford. It is a day-to-day car that relative commoners are able to experience and drive. Yeah, the LFA drives like an absolute beast, but how many of us will be exposed to the car for a prolonged amount of time, let alone for a moment? Curiously, Lexus' IS handles weakly compared to the far-superior 3-series. A 3-series is a car that people can realistically afford and drive.

 

[mini_cooper4]

The Audi Quattro and Quattro Sport... I'm not an Audi fan but that's some heritage
And now the R8 which will definitely be remembered
I don't like Audi at all but at the end I bought an Italian Audi because BMW had nothing for me and they still don't have and they'll probably never have

 

[K-A]

Hmm, who would have thought that a Supercar wouldn't be Marketable?

.... I mean, BMW will put out anything that allows their Marketing Team to run amuck with spin spin savvy ways to sell to the general public....

.... Maybe a Supercar is just too easy?



I guess in reality, it doesn't really matter. Only the car geeks will really love it. They'd sell extremely narrowly, and would please a very select few of "1%'ers". At the same time, it's a worthy investment if the company is serious about the cars that they sell, instead of being serious about selling cars. I.e, it'd be a way to just gluttonously show off what they're capable of, with the gloves off. As well, it does certainly help the brands image. However, again, in real life, to average shoppers, it really doesn't matter, which may be why BMW deems it a waste of time.

 

[chonkoa]

Incredible to read such ignorance.

Joke on you mate.