Czinger Czinger 21C - production spec


Czinger Vehicles Inc., commonly known as Czinger is an American automobile manufacturer of hybrid sports cars based in Los Angeles, California, operating since 2019. Official website: Czinger
The problem with this is, the engine only lasts a couple thousand km and I have no clue how it ever passes emissions.
And as if 334 PS/1l wasn't highly strung enough, they offer a power upgrade which brings it to 369 PS/1L.
Makes me laugh. AMG One only has 359 PS/1l and that's literal F1 technology which cost this industry giant insane headaches. And those guys do have millions to throw at problems as well as experienced engineers.

With Czinger, it's just one fantastic sounding, yet unrealistic sales pitch after the other, everywhere you look at the car.
 
"The Czinger 21C subframe shows what it looks like when engineering and performance are elevated to an artistic level of design.

Reflecting natural structures perfected over eons of evolution, these structures have been honed through machine learning to be as efficient as possible. The digital world of manufacturing has arrived and is showcased through Czinger’s Hypercar, the 21C."

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2 hours ago.
 
They finally showed the actual engine (and not just renders). It looks very different to a Hartley V8.

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Alot of assumptions have been made by some. Me included, but I try to wait until delivered cars are looked at and or tested. This one has been in the works awhile.
 
It looks really good on the move. I kinda like the styling looks compact but nice and aggressive.
 
Looks like things are falling into place at Czinger. First Jethro dropped a lot of info about the imminent production status of 21C in this Road & Track article from two weeks ago.

Here's some of the most interesting bits:
The 21C is fully homologated to demonstrate the mass-production potential of the technology. The likes of Aston Martin and McLaren use the “show and display” loophole to make their most extreme cars available to U.S. customers, but it’s a point of pride that the 21C tackles safety and emissions requirements head-on.

Lotus Engineering is currently working on final emissions testing in the U.K., and chassis development work is drawing to a close at a private testing facility near California City. Customer cars are just weeks away from our visit, and Czinger is determined that lap records will follow. Laguna Seca, COTA, maybe even the Nürburgring. “Dominating Performance” is the mantra around here.

Today, sadly, we won’t hear or feel the 21C at full attack. Not even close. The V Max pictured here is a prototype, and with final production vehicles coming in weeks, Czinger doesn’t want us to experience a car without representative engine and gearbox calibration.

Even this extremely confident father-and-son duo admits that developing a radical hypercar has not been all smooth sailing. “Doing an engine yourself is a big undertaking. If you look at the blue car [another validation vehicle], we thought we were pretty close,” Lukas says. “Now? I think every single part number has changed. And that was partially the cycle, right? And it’s like when we get something wrong, per se—we get our crash result, we get our engine readout from the dyno—we go back to the drawing board on the design side. We make that design change, and within 48 hours, I can have a new part. I’m going to be back on that dyno. That’s magnitudes faster than typical automotive. So, we are doing things fundamentally different. But we’ve also just had the cheat code of being able to iterate that much faster.”

The skeptic in me has to ask: Will this hypercar ever actually deliver? Kevin looks me dead in the eye and measures his reply carefully. “As the actual people that own and control the company and call it Czinger, yes,” he says. “We will absolutely do that. This car is going to be an actual durable street-legal car. We will, with every particle of our being, make sure of that. America needs a kick-ass real performance company, and with a small team and these super tools, we will deliver.”


They also touched upon weight of the car:
Initial targets projected a dry weight of about 2760 pounds (1,250 kg), but the final production-spec car is closer to 3200 (1,450 kg).
I always knew 1,250 kg dry weight was too good to be true [Back in 2021, Motor Trend reported that the curb weight is 2,900 lb (1,315 kg) - I assumed that's a wet weight without fuel, rather than true curb].

Now this new number blows past that by 200 kg and it's still only a dry weight (unless Jethro mismatched standards). Whether it's reasonable to assume the difference between dry and wet, based on the previous reporting, is 65 kg, and therefore a production 21C is 1,515 kg, I leave up to you.

While we're on the topic of weight, let me interject and mention the weight of the chassis. Because Czinger had this info panel at their Goodwood FoS stand:
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It gives us a weight figure of the "Bio-Logic" chassis: 281 lb (127.5 kg)
and a torsional stiffness: 22,125 ft-lb (30,000 Nm) per degree.

If that weight is really of the entire chassis, including the subframe bits and crash structures, then hats off to them. But I suspect it's rather the monocoque alone. So I'm just gonna call that a misleading wording by Czinger.
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Finally, Czinger put up links to couple of unlisted videos on their linktree page. They all sit at single digit views.

This is the most interesting one, because it shows crash test footage of both the standard car and the V Max version.
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This one shows the date of the test: June-24 2024
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They also claim that:
The chassis is about 25% lighter than the latest state of the art thin wall casting and composite architectures in the industry today.
 
The rest of the unlisted videos are not all that interesting.

Czinger 21C BrakeNode™ Overview (wheel upright and brake caliper combined into single part):
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V Max Iceman Blue Edition Specification Overview (literally just talking about the spec of this car)
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Mostly it seems to me to be just the usual BS. The whole Jethro article was like a giant advertising piece where he basically repeats everything they told him to say. The car hasn't been homologated yet for anything - it's all just targets (I am sure they would be extremely quick to brag about it if it was). The crash footage, in fact, shows the car wearing standard AP calipers, instead of the BRAKENODE*TM (and different wheels too), so that crash test at least wasn't part of the homologation (or, the BRAKENODE*TM isn't actually gonna implemented on the production car at all and serves just as a nice showpiece).

"A few weeks" from the date of the article is Pebble Beach - where they will no doubt only do a show delivery like so many brands before them. That the car is not ready for actual production is evident from the many contradictory statements given. They are "weeks away" from production, yet Jethro wasn't able to even drive it because they still don't have the engine and gearbox calibration down, and the homologation hasn't been finished either.
 
The whole Jethro article was like a giant advertising piece where he basically repeats everything they told him to say.
I thought it was a very good writeup void of the usual dickriding. It would be hard to describe Divergent and not make yourself sound enamored with the technology or their facilities. What they're doing is cool and impressive (and I don't mean the car itself).
The proof is in the pudding. Aston Martin, Bugatti and McLaren are now their clients. And there's probably more that we don't know about.
At least here we got to learn 21C is a lot heavier than previously reported. And he straight up asked them if it's really gonna deliver. What more do you want? A full on audit of the certificates? 😁
The only part where I wish Jethro would put two and two together and grill them about, is the downforce claim.

The crash footage, in fact, shows the car wearing standard AP calipers, instead of the BRAKENODE*TM (and different wheels too), so that crash test at least wasn't part of the homologation (or, the BRAKENODE*TM isn't actually gonna implemented on the production car at all and serves just as a nice showpiece).
I doubt wheels or brakes are of consequence when doing crash tests. Wheels have certification of their own. It shouldn't really matter which ones they use. The uprights do seem like a bit of a marketing stunt, tho.

They are "weeks away" from production, yet Jethro wasn't able to even drive it because they still don't have the engine and gearbox calibration down, and the homologation hasn't been finished either.
I'm not saying I'm buying the production being "weeks away", but Jethro not getting seat time could be explained by Czinger not wanting to ruin busy schedule of their more advanced prototypes. Or they just want to secure the best possible conditions for a good first impression with the press.
 
BTW, this is how I know it's really happening.
They finally added a wiper. These mfers never have rain. This means the car is leaving California. lol
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It would be hard to describe Divergent and not make yourself sound enamored with the technology or their facilities. What they're doing is cool and impressive (and I don't mean the car itself).
I think I could have managed it!

To be fair, I am still not quite sure what Czinger is doing that nobody else is. 3D printing can be done by anyone with a 3D printing machine. Designing AI enhanced components in CAD can be done anyone with the software. They are constantly presenting themselves as if 3D printing or AI design was something they invented - but they haven't, they are just using it like anybody else.

Arguably, it's not quite that easy. With any relatively new technology (at least new when it comes to mass adoption) there are challenges and quirks to work out. 3D printed parts, for example, have a lot of residual stresses in them (from how the material is heated and then instantly cooled with each layer), so a lot of these parts have problems with warping or cracking. So knowing the exact printing settings for each shape, etc, is something you'll only learn with experience - and Czinger could be one of the companies with that experience. There are also questions about the longevity and fatigue life of 3D parts - and, again, Czinger might be one of the companies that has actually done that testing and has that data. So, in that sense, they might be the leaders in that field, and that's why they are now getting contracts from other manufacturers, who would probably want that sort of data before they would commit to it.
I doubt wheels or brakes are of consequence when doing crash tests.
I don't know, from what I've heard the car doing the crash testing has to be very, very close to the production spec, even for parts that ostensibly are not involved in the result. Things might be more lax for low volume cars, but that might clash with their "fully homologated" claim, and with them "tackling the issue head on".
 
To be fair, I am still not quite sure what Czinger is doing that nobody else is. 3D printing can be done by anyone with a 3D printing machine. Designing AI enhanced components in CAD can be done anyone with the software. They are constantly presenting themselves as if 3D printing or AI design was something they invented - but they haven't, they are just using it like anybody else.
They're Americans, they're the best at taking existing technology and marketing the shit out of it (jk).

It's funny how Bugatti are the client, when they're the ones who did the first 3D printed brake caliper couple of years back. And it had computer optimized topology as well.
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