D
Deleted member 25
And it wouldn't be a wise choice as BMW was always regarded as the german Alfa, i don't see how they can make it successful without hurting themselves.
Is BMW interested in Saab?
- Thread starter Kowalski
- Start date
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
Would disagree with you there. BMW and Alfa can share quite a lot. And it wouldn't hurt themselves cos if people want an Alfa or a German Alfa, they'll throw their money in the same direction.
it's like fishing with 2 rods - it doesn't mean you'll catch twice as much fish but your chances of catching fish increases
D
Deleted member 25
Could be, but i still think that having a second brand with different positioning is a better choice, a brand with slightely less prenium products, saab would have been perfect if it wasn't for the factories situated in Sweden.
Cashmere
RPM Ruler
You make some good points. Whoever purchases SAAB will have to inject quite a bit to turn the company around. It doesn't seem like SAAB makes bad cars, with a revised marketing approach and a bit more flare in their designs (esp interior) they have immense potential to become a bona fide contender in their segment.
I don´t think the factories situated in Sweden needs to be negative cost wise, at least not compared to Germany. Saab were much cheaper to manufacture than Opel even considering the transportaion of parts, due to cheaper engineering and manufacturing salaries/social costs.
If you refere to wanting facotries in BRIC or US due to currency then I stand corrected.
speed_kills
Diesel Dynamiker
It would be great for SAAB. A loaded parent company. BMW could make Saab a cheaper alternative to Audi. FWD, semi-premium cars.
Saab would gain access to lots of engines and gearboxes, only problem would be making them transversally mounted but i'm shure Saab engeneering would make it.
Saab would gain access to lots of engines and gearboxes, only problem would be making them transversally mounted but i'm shure Saab engeneering would make it.
I saw the tribute to Saab by Top Gear this Sunday and while it wasn't very accurate, it was interesting to see that Saab was a revolution against GM.
Take the original Saab 9-5, for example. It was based on the Vauxhall Vectra (Opel Vectra B) and yet when the EuroNCAP first crash-tested the Vectra, it only scored 2 stars. The 9-5, however, scored four stars. What does that tell you?
Take the original Saab 9-5, for example. It was based on the Vauxhall Vectra (Opel Vectra B) and yet when the EuroNCAP first crash-tested the Vectra, it only scored 2 stars. The 9-5, however, scored four stars. What does that tell you?
Tumbo
RPM Ruler
I really love SAAB! They have amazing cars, and I really hope that they will survive.
I hate what GM is doing to them.
So I hope from the bottom of my heart that BMW would buy them, cause that will not even let them survive, but get a quality brand behind them. That would be so great! Fingers crossed.
I hate what GM is doing to them.
So I hope from the bottom of my heart that BMW would buy them, cause that will not even let them survive, but get a quality brand behind them. That would be so great! Fingers crossed.
Human
You. The Road. Nothing else.
^
Summed-up in a nutshell
And this is how I feel:
BMW planning to revive Triumph?
"Originally Posted by Human
You just rang a bell you can't unring Betty. If it was not for the Germans per sé or rather the German Auto industry who revived, saved and rescued [Rolls-Royce, Mini,] Bentley, Bugatti and everything in between VAG and in small part BMW swallowed up. Those brands the British send to their grave would be just that d-e-a-d or in the hands of some Chinese motor company who may be able to sell their cars in the EU due to regulations in modern tech in 2050.
Cars like your R8 with Italian inspiration may not have a basis for existence if the German Auto Industry did not do their part in being sensible enough blowing new, fresh air into the dying and disappearing great marques we all adore.
In fact we owe many to the 'balls' of the German Auto Industry. From Otto, Daimler, Maybach & Benz who pioneered this very Forum to the Winterkorn's, Reithofer's and Zetsche's of today who saw the brilliance of resurrecting the famous in stead of letting them rot!
CH is entitled to his opinion, just in this case he's totally making a fool of himself.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
I've heard the same thing: BMW are involved to reclaim their own intellectual property SAAB had access to (based on the contract / agreement BMW & SAAB signed - for BMW suppling engines & MINI platform to SAAB).
But ... usually bankruptcy of one party causes automatic ipso facto contract termination. So the intellectual property reclaimed automatically with contract termination itself. I don't understand why BMW would bid to buy back its own IP. Unless they are afraid the Chinese would get access to it - and then it would be impossible to reclaim / protect IP via court since IP protection in China is almost non existing? Could be ... but if this is the case, then BMW were very naive to got involved with such deal with a weak company like SAAB was back then.
speed_kills
Diesel Dynamiker
Saab has 1,5 billion € in debts. It's a dead weight now, the brand isn't worth that much.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
BMW Sues Saab Automobile Parts for EUR2.6 Million over Unpaid Deliveries
Published August 22, 2012
| Dow Jones Newswires
German car maker BMW AG (BMW.XE) is suing Swedish spare part company Saab Automobile Parts AB, a former unit of bankrupt car maker Saab Automobile AB, for 2.6 million euros ($3.2 million) plus interest over unpaid deliveries.
A lawsuit was filed with the Swedish district court in Nykoping Monday.
The BMW lawsuit is the latest in a series of after-effects from Saab's bankruptcy. Spyker N.V. (SPYKR.AE), the owner of Saab Automobile AB before its financial collapse late last year, recently said it has filed a $3 billion lawsuit against General Motors Co. (GM) claiming the U.S. car giant drove the Swedish company into bankruptcy.
Lennart Stahl, Chief Executive of Saab Automobile Parts AB which remains a going concern, said the company has contested the claim in earlier contact with BMW's lawyers and that it will go over the claim again. "Our lawyers will now go through the lawsuit carefully and see if anything new has been added before we decide what to do," he said.
A BMW spokeswoman declined to comment.
In September 2010, BMW and Saab Automobile AB signed a purchase, supply and development agreement regarding gasoline four-cylinder engines, which were to be installed in Saab's 9-3 model. The agreement also covered components and spare parts.
According to the lawsuit, a large number of spare parts and components were ordered by Saab Automobile but never paid for, despite repeated reminders throughout 2011. Saab Automobile, which was suffering an acute lack of liquidity, filed for bankruptcy last December.
The lawsuit contends that Saab Automobile Parts AB is liable for the unpaid deliveries, following Saab Automobile's bankruptcy.
However, Mr. Stahl doesn't believe Saab Automobile Parts should have to pay for components ordered by Saab Automobile. "Saab Automobile Parts AB have not ordered or received any spare parts or components from BMW," he said. "Why would a spare part company order components for a car model that's not yet in production?"
The spare part unit is part of Saab Automobile's bankruptcy estate even though it continues its operations. Shares in Saab Automobile Parts AB were put up as collateral by Saab Automobile AB in exchange for state-backed guarantees for its loans in the European Investment Bank. The Swedish National Dept Office, the authority which guaranteed Saab's loans in the EIB, has declared its intention to sell Saab Automobile Parts AB in order to collect Saab's debt.
Saab Automobile left behind debts of $2 billion backed by assets of just $500 million.
Published August 22, 2012
| Dow Jones Newswires
German car maker BMW AG (BMW.XE) is suing Swedish spare part company Saab Automobile Parts AB, a former unit of bankrupt car maker Saab Automobile AB, for 2.6 million euros ($3.2 million) plus interest over unpaid deliveries.
A lawsuit was filed with the Swedish district court in Nykoping Monday.
The BMW lawsuit is the latest in a series of after-effects from Saab's bankruptcy. Spyker N.V. (SPYKR.AE), the owner of Saab Automobile AB before its financial collapse late last year, recently said it has filed a $3 billion lawsuit against General Motors Co. (GM) claiming the U.S. car giant drove the Swedish company into bankruptcy.
Lennart Stahl, Chief Executive of Saab Automobile Parts AB which remains a going concern, said the company has contested the claim in earlier contact with BMW's lawyers and that it will go over the claim again. "Our lawyers will now go through the lawsuit carefully and see if anything new has been added before we decide what to do," he said.
A BMW spokeswoman declined to comment.
In September 2010, BMW and Saab Automobile AB signed a purchase, supply and development agreement regarding gasoline four-cylinder engines, which were to be installed in Saab's 9-3 model. The agreement also covered components and spare parts.
According to the lawsuit, a large number of spare parts and components were ordered by Saab Automobile but never paid for, despite repeated reminders throughout 2011. Saab Automobile, which was suffering an acute lack of liquidity, filed for bankruptcy last December.
The lawsuit contends that Saab Automobile Parts AB is liable for the unpaid deliveries, following Saab Automobile's bankruptcy.
However, Mr. Stahl doesn't believe Saab Automobile Parts should have to pay for components ordered by Saab Automobile. "Saab Automobile Parts AB have not ordered or received any spare parts or components from BMW," he said. "Why would a spare part company order components for a car model that's not yet in production?"
The spare part unit is part of Saab Automobile's bankruptcy estate even though it continues its operations. Shares in Saab Automobile Parts AB were put up as collateral by Saab Automobile AB in exchange for state-backed guarantees for its loans in the European Investment Bank. The Swedish National Dept Office, the authority which guaranteed Saab's loans in the EIB, has declared its intention to sell Saab Automobile Parts AB in order to collect Saab's debt.
Saab Automobile left behind debts of $2 billion backed by assets of just $500 million.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
On the other hand ... it seems VAG via Scania (owned by VAG & MAN which is also owned by VAG) controls the property & usage of SAAB famous griffin badge! Is it possible VAG will go for SAAB brand (brandname & logo only, not the company! ... just like BMW once did with Rolls-Royce - against VAG)? So, VAG getting SAAB instead of waiting for Fiat to be weak enough to load off Alfa Romeo?
Scania: Asian buyers will have to replace Saab logo
(AFP) – Aug 16, 2012
STOCKHOLM — Saab's new Asian owners will have to replace the iconic logo that adorns the Swedish-built autos after truck maker Scania said Thursday it would not cede the rights.
Scania shares the image of the red griffon wearing a golden crown on a blue background with Saab Automobile and the defence company Saab, which were part of a single group until 1990.
The griffon is a mythological creature that is part eagle and part lion, and is the emblem of Scania, Sweden's southernmost province.
Saab Automobile, which went bankrupt last year, got a new lease on life in June when Chinese and Japanese investors were selected by an administrator to take over the carmaker for an undisclosed sum.
Hong Kong-based alternative energy specialist National Modern Energy Holdings and Japanese investment firm Sun Investment LLC said they plan to adapt Saab's 9-3 model to make an electric vehicle for the Chinese market.
But Scania said Thursday it would not let the griffon adorn any non-Swedish vehicles.
"Scania doesn't want to allow the buyer to use the griffon symbol which is intimately tied to Scania," spokesman Hans Aake Danielsson told AFP.
"Scania has used this logo since 1911 ... and we don't want our symbol in a manner that could damage our brand," he added.
Moreover cars produced by the resurrected Saab automaker "won't be Swedish any longer," Danielsson stressed.
The aerospace company was less categorical however.
"We are currently in the midst of a dialogue (on the use of the Saab name) and it is still too early to say what the conclusions will be," said Sebastian Carlsson.
He is a spokesman for the Saab unit that builds combat jets, commercial aviation and defence systems and civil security networks.
Any decision about the logo and the name must be approved by all three of the group's former units.
Saab Automobile struggled for years before the company filed for bankruptcy.
US automaker General Motors, which owned Saab's auto unit for 10 years, sold it in 2010 to the tiny sports car maker Spyker.
The Dutch company soon ran into cash problems but its efforts to bring in Chinese investors was thrwarted by GM failing to give up intellectual property rights to key technologies.
Scania: Asian buyers will have to replace Saab logo
(AFP) – Aug 16, 2012
STOCKHOLM — Saab's new Asian owners will have to replace the iconic logo that adorns the Swedish-built autos after truck maker Scania said Thursday it would not cede the rights.
Scania shares the image of the red griffon wearing a golden crown on a blue background with Saab Automobile and the defence company Saab, which were part of a single group until 1990.
The griffon is a mythological creature that is part eagle and part lion, and is the emblem of Scania, Sweden's southernmost province.
Saab Automobile, which went bankrupt last year, got a new lease on life in June when Chinese and Japanese investors were selected by an administrator to take over the carmaker for an undisclosed sum.
Hong Kong-based alternative energy specialist National Modern Energy Holdings and Japanese investment firm Sun Investment LLC said they plan to adapt Saab's 9-3 model to make an electric vehicle for the Chinese market.
But Scania said Thursday it would not let the griffon adorn any non-Swedish vehicles.
"Scania doesn't want to allow the buyer to use the griffon symbol which is intimately tied to Scania," spokesman Hans Aake Danielsson told AFP.
"Scania has used this logo since 1911 ... and we don't want our symbol in a manner that could damage our brand," he added.
Moreover cars produced by the resurrected Saab automaker "won't be Swedish any longer," Danielsson stressed.
The aerospace company was less categorical however.
"We are currently in the midst of a dialogue (on the use of the Saab name) and it is still too early to say what the conclusions will be," said Sebastian Carlsson.
He is a spokesman for the Saab unit that builds combat jets, commercial aviation and defence systems and civil security networks.
Any decision about the logo and the name must be approved by all three of the group's former units.
Saab Automobile struggled for years before the company filed for bankruptcy.
US automaker General Motors, which owned Saab's auto unit for 10 years, sold it in 2010 to the tiny sports car maker Spyker.
The Dutch company soon ran into cash problems but its efforts to bring in Chinese investors was thrwarted by GM failing to give up intellectual property rights to key technologies.
H
Hofmeister
The now bankrupt Swedish automaker Saab is being sued by BMW over unpaid deliveries for spare parts. In September 2010, BMW and Saab signed a purchase agreement regarding four-cylinder engines meant to be used in the 9-2 and 9-3 models. Same contract also covered spare parts and other components.
The lawsuit states that a large number of these spare parts were never paid for, as a result of Saab’s financial troubles that led to bankruptcy filling. The lawsuit contends that Saab Automobile Parts AB is liable for the unpaid deliveries, following Saab Automobile’s bankruptcy.
Lennart Stahl, Chief Executive of Saab Automobile Parts AB, denies the claim. “Saab Automobile Parts AB have not ordered or received any spare parts or components from BMW,” he said. “Why would a spare part company order components for a car model that’s not yet in production?”
Saab Automobile Parts AB continues to operate and is used as collateral by Saab Automobile AB in exchange for state-backed guarantees for its loans in the European Investment Bank.
Bankruptcy filled papers point to a $2 billion debt for Saab.
BMW has yet to issue an official statement.
Full story at:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/08/22/bmw-sues-saab-automobile-parts-for-eur26-million-over-unpaid-deliveries/
The lawsuit states that a large number of these spare parts were never paid for, as a result of Saab’s financial troubles that led to bankruptcy filling. The lawsuit contends that Saab Automobile Parts AB is liable for the unpaid deliveries, following Saab Automobile’s bankruptcy.
Lennart Stahl, Chief Executive of Saab Automobile Parts AB, denies the claim. “Saab Automobile Parts AB have not ordered or received any spare parts or components from BMW,” he said. “Why would a spare part company order components for a car model that’s not yet in production?”
Saab Automobile Parts AB continues to operate and is used as collateral by Saab Automobile AB in exchange for state-backed guarantees for its loans in the European Investment Bank.
Bankruptcy filled papers point to a $2 billion debt for Saab.
BMW has yet to issue an official statement.
Full story at:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/08/22/bmw-sues-saab-automobile-parts-for-eur26-million-over-unpaid-deliveries/
I don't see what could BMW do with Saab. Nor what could VAG do with Saab other than rebadging and placing Saab between VW and Audi, but what then about Alfa if ever they get it? Surely not between Audi and Porsche? In fact I like Saab, and really am a fan of the Aero X Concept and their new design style, but without FR/F4 layout, they can't compete against the premium and are way to much for being general.
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