CT Lexus Premium Compact Concept

[Mii]

Reports have been suggesting that Lexus is preparing to take the next fight to the compact German hatches and coupes. The reports came as an increasing number of automakers downsize in most respects, including engine and body size. Here appears the official sketch of what a compact Lexus will look like.
The concept car will be shown to the public at the 2009 Frankfurt Motor Show (IAA). It promises to showcase the brand's innovation in design and its technological advances. Lexus is quite confident that the vehicle will raise the bar in the premium compact segment which is currently dominated by cars like the Audi A3, the BMW 1 Series and the Mercedes-Benz A/ B-Class.
Powertrains to be used in the final production models are still up in the air. But hints have been made as to engine direction after it emerged that Lexus had patented the names CT 200h, CT 300h and CT 400h in North America. Only the company's hybrid models are designated with the letter "h" on their badges. This action has led to speculation that the compact car will only employ hybrid technology for its entire range.



WCF

 

[EnI]

Lexus brand is a joke in Europe!

They sold 10k units in 1st half of 2009. Even Porsche & Jaguar sold more cars each than Lexus!

Not need to mention BMW (290k units), Audi (325k units) & MB (305k units) ...

Sure Lexus is a fine car, but the brand is a joke.

Who wants an artificial Japanese quasi-luxury brand?

 

[LaArtist]

Looks good .. but it wont be..

PS
It got a 1 series hoff kink goin on

 

[Kowalski]

Lexus ain't no joke, I tell you.

But I doubt the production model will look remotely like the car in the sketch.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Lexus brand is a joke in Europe!


Who wants an artificial Japanese quasi-luxury brand?

No offense man, but that's the same idiotic mistake companies in the USA made too. Everyone wrote off the Japanese when they first came, look where they're at now. Lexus is a pretty big brand now after 20 years.

I know many people on here absolutely detest Lexus, but don't write them off as idiots, there is a reason they're still in business.

 

[Merc1]

Sketches are the highest form or hype possible, no car every looks like the sketch. You can't form and produce the metal to look like that anyway. This car is going to be based on a Corolla platform from what I'm reading. Needless to say it won't come to the U.S. Just another reason why Lexus won't be able to cut it in Europe.

M

 

[EnI]

No offense man, but that's the same idiotic mistake companies in the USA made too. Everyone wrote off the Japanese when they first came, look where they're at now. Lexus is a pretty big brand now after 20 years.

I know many people on here absolutely detest Lexus, but don't write them off as idiots, there is a reason they're still in business.

They are present in Europe for a few years now - and last two years the sales are decreasing. This year a lot more than the sales of core rivals.

And the compact class is the most crowded class in European car market ... Even in the premium segment: 1er, A3, A-class, Volvo C30, Alfa 149, Lancia Delta.

I'm not sure Lexus will succeed in the segment - unless offering a lot for less money. Which is now a role of eg. Kia & Hyundai.

American market is different ...

Brands like Infiniti, Acura, Lexus can't succeed in Europe ... unless A LOT of money is invested in Marketing.

For now "Lexus goes Global" experiment wasn't successful at all. Toyota predictions were low, yet the real results are even lower - even in the pre-crisis times. No need to mention today Lexus is brain dead in EU - and most Lexus cars are sold in UK market, while continentla Europe cares even less about artificial Jap brands.

Why did Lexus succeed in US? Just like BMW did. Right product, right time, right price.

And that's impossible to do in a overcrowded market like compact segment.

And what does Lexus brand stands for? Artificial quasi-luxury?

Not even great reliability, striving for perfection & green tech by Lexus didn't move Europenas much.

If Lexus wants to succeed in Europe it needs a state-of-art diesel hybrid for a price of non-hybrid car. And the key point here is: DIESEL. No diesel, no success in Europe.


And yes: there is a reason, they are still in business ... actually there are 2 of them: RX, and "mother" TOYOTA.

 

[NarutoRamen]

They are present in Europe for a few years now - and last two years the sales are decreasing. This year a lot more than the sales of core rivals.

I don't feel like copying everything...

1. You can't use the current sales because of the economic slump.
2. It took a decade for Lexus to actually gain some respect.
3. Since it's fairly new, they haven't figured out how to market themselves yet.
4. Sure, I'll give you the credit for compact segment, but they're not going to go anywhere if they have the attitude of "Well, it's crowded, so let's not make a car."
5. If the car is going to be based on Corolla chassis, then it's going to be profitable, no reason NOT to enter the market.
6. I can't stress this enough...it hasn't been LONG enough for them to succeed. C'mon, even you know a brand new company isn't just going to TAKE OFF.
7. As for the Diesel argument, I'll agree but at the same time: they are new and haven't figured out their strategy yet.

Right now you remind me of an NBA player bitching about how an elementary kid is no good. If they've been in Europe for like 10 years and haven't made a dent then your points are valid, but they haven't.

 

[Merc1]

I thought Lexus started in Europe in 1990 along with U.S.?


M

 

[NarutoRamen]

I thought Lexus started in Europe in 1990 along with U.S.?


M

I'm not too sure. If they did, then they didn't start with Euro Centric products, which they still haven't done. Like I said, they haven't figured out what the F__k they're doing yet.

 

[EnI]

I thought Lexus started in Europe in 1990 along with U.S.? M

Limited from late 90s, more unlimited (with serious plans & dedicated dealerships) from 2005/2006.

Sure they can increase (double) the sales with a compact hatch like CT (just like eg. Porsche did with Cayenne, or Audi with Q7 & Q5 in US market etc) ... But they will still be well behind main rivals - while eg. on their main market - the US one - the main rivals (especially BMW) are catching up, and only few thousands units behind.

As said: even Jaguar (with very limited model line, with no SUVs !!!!), and Porsche sells more cars (each!!!) in Europe than Lexus does.

Even in Japan Lexus wasn't accepted as well as expected by Toyota.

Yes, sure some new buyers will emerge ... but Lexus will hardly rival Audi, BMW & MB globally ... perhaps in some markets only (eg. US, South Korea etc) but on broader level they will still lag behind badly.

And now with other carmakers also starting to offer hybrids & e-cars ... what's the Lexus' edge & advantage? Not to mention they are not cheap anymore, nor the rivals do not lag behind in quality.

So, what special has Lexus to offer today?

Sure in US specific (US-targeted) models like ES & RX (and to some extent LS as well) are a huge success ... Having built Lexus reputation in US market. But all other models are not that successful at all - compared to core rivals.

Toyota already invested A LOT in Lexus marketing, and still haven't found the magic formula.

Why? Because a luxury brand is MORE than just a marketing.

Right now I'm skeptical about the success of CT ...


Toyota will have to invest a lot more money into "Lexus going global" project, and hire some foreign marketing specialists who know global premium markets. Until then ... good luck, Lexus.

Eg. I would rather choose Alfa 149 over Lexus CT. Not to mention A3 & 1er. A-class ... Perhaps the new non-van one.

 

[cawimmer430]

We always hear about Lexus trying to make it in Europe but in my personal opinion their heart just isn't in it. Clearly they're focusing on North America and all other markets are just "there" to slowly expand in but with no real enthusiasm it seems.

Remember the IS220d? When Lexus announced it was going to offer a diesel IS for Europe they assumed that was enough for Lexus to succeed in Europe - it wasn't. They basically took an IS250, stuffed in a rough Toyota Avensis diesel (with no particulate filter to begin with) and removed 2/3rds of the safety features of the IS250 (for some f_cked up reason). The IS220d was also never available with an automatic. Sounds like one weird car to me, a car that doesn't know what it wants to be. Needless to say the IS220d is outclassed by its German rivals and trails in sales.

Why does Lexus do poorly here? First of all the people with money expect a luxury brand - that means history and heritage that define what the brand is. Lexus doesn't have this. Lexus has also continually refused to adapt to the European market. No cheaper trim levels and no fuel-efficient engines as well as no estate versions of their IS and GS. Lexus is a brand that doesn't offer the European consumer what they want and need. Call it a "half-baked brand" in Europe.

Their dealer networks are thin and I believe some Toyota dealers don't service Lexus cars. Resale value is also extremely poor, so why get a Lexus in the first place when you can't sell them later on?

As of late I think Lexus has also been extremely overrated. This 1-Series fighter will be another lackluster product that Lexus will simply create to enter a new niche in Europe - but I doubt their heart will be really in it. It will probably come with "big" engines only and basically compete with the top end 1-Series and A3 if you ask me. Oh wow, a great way of attracting more buyers...

Just my opinion.

 

[Yperion]

And the compact class is the most crowded class in European car market ... Even in the premium segment: 1er, A3, A-class, Volvo C30, Alfa 149, Lancia Delta.

Only Audi , MB and BMW are considered premium manufacturers these days.

Volvo , Alfa Romeo and Lancia are semi premium and imo it's the same status that Lexus has so far in the mind of the average European...

 

[ree]

We always hear about Lexus trying to make it in Europe but in my personal opinion their heart just isn't in it. Clearly they're focusing on North America and all other markets are just "there" to slowly expand in but with no real enthusiasm it seems.

Remember the IS220d? When Lexus announced it was going to offer a diesel IS for Europe they assumed that was enough for Lexus to succeed in Europe - it wasn't. They basically took an IS250, stuffed in a rough Toyota Avensis diesel (with no particulate filter to begin with) and removed 2/3rds of the safety features of the IS250 (for some f_cked up reason). The IS220d was also never available with an automatic. Sounds like one weird car to me, a car that doesn't know what it wants to be. Needless to say the IS220d is outclassed by its German rivals and trails in sales.

Why does Lexus do poorly here? First of all the people with money expect a luxury brand - that means history and heritage that define what the brand is. Lexus doesn't have this. Lexus has also continually refused to adapt to the European market. No cheaper trim levels and no fuel-efficient engines as well as no estate versions of their IS and GS. Lexus is a brand that doesn't offer the European consumer what they want and need. Call it a "half-baked brand" in Europe.

Their dealer networks are thin and I believe some Toyota dealers don't service Lexus cars. Resale value is also extremely poor, so why get a Lexus in the first place when you can't sell them later on?

As of late I think Lexus has also been extremely overrated. This 1-Series fighter will be another lackluster product that Lexus will simply create to enter a new niche in Europe - but I doubt their heart will be really in it. It will probably come with "big" engines only and basically compete with the top end 1-Series and A3 if you ask me. Oh wow, a great way of attracting more buyers...

Just my opinion.

Perfect analyse…every single word is true…

 

[bmer]

Only Audi , MB and BMW are considered premium manufacturers these days.

Volvo , Alfa Romeo and Lancia are semi premium and imo it's the same status that Lexus has so far in the mind of the average European...

I would say traditionally MB, BMW and also Audi are considered luxury car makers, where as Volvo and Alfa are members of the premium car segment.

 

[Merc1]

Great post Chris.

I wonder why Toyota even bothers with Lexus in Europe if they aren't going to take Europe as seriously as they did the U.S.?

Seems like a waste of time for them IMO. How in the world do you get by without a full diesel lineup?


M

 

[cawimmer430]

I wonder why Toyota even bothers with Lexus in Europe if they aren't going to take Europe as seriously as they did the U.S.?

Seems like a waste of time for them IMO. How in the world do you get by without a full diesel lineup?

M

They're trying to sell American-style luxury here in Europe - it doesn't work. I think they still have failed to grasp this after all these years or they think that eventually Europeans will warm up to their cars. Lexus here isn't even a blip on consumer satisfaction reports like they are in the US or they are fused with Toyota when it comes to that here.

With this 1-Series fighter from Lexus I predict that they will price it against the top-of-the-line 1er and therefore offer only powerful engines again. So basically they're going to offer a car that will go head-to-head with the 130i Sedan or 135i Coupe. That is my prediction. And from what we hear a hybrid too. A hybrid in such a car? People here have problems shedding out so much money for a Toyota Prius!

 

[Mr Robert]

I wonder why Toyota even bothers with Lexus in Europe if they aren't going to take Europe as seriously as they did the U.S.?


M

Imagine if they would do just that, build cars like we want them here in Europe. I think it would have been great to have another contender here. Today that is far from true.

Regarding the status of Lexus, I'd say Lexus thinks they are somewhere around the same place as Mercedes. People in general think not. In comparisons there, the Lexus alternative, typically the IS, is compared to Alfas, Volvos, VW and SAAB.

 

[Mr Robert]

Brands like Infiniti, Acura, Lexus can't succeed in Europe ... unless A LOT of money is invested in Marketing.

When the G37 was tested by European journalists it became apparent that besides marketing, the whole interior would have to be reworked to European standards for a car in the class Ininiti wants to put the G37. So, not just marketing, even if that is a key issue, along with the fact that the brands have no heriatage, history and recognition.

 

[EnI]

The problem with Lexus is that their products are still too US-oriented.

So, with a sports hatch they will address the European needs - but they will hardly build a premium image with a compact car ...

It 's like Lexus marketing officials are thinking: "We are tier1 premium brand in US, so let's go to Europe, and tell them about that - and the Europeans will accept us as tier1 premium brand as well."

They don't know anything about Euro market ... In EU markets premium is not about offering just powerful big-size engines. Europeans don't care about engines much. For them 116i, 316d etc is still a premium ...

And to be considered seriously in Europe Lexus needs a competitive diesel engines. Across the line. Offering a hybrid model is hardly an edge today ... since in a few years this will be standard. IMO Toyota / Lexus times capitalizing on hybrid tech as an exclusive advantage are almost over.

Also: they promoted the brand with the hybrids in Europe - but that was the formula working in US market, not the Euro ones. What EU customers wanted was diesel ... and not some crappy one like IS220d - where it was offered in a stripped version of IS ... without being able to customize ...

IMO time is running out for Lexus ... They can't reach Tier1 status in Europe (except in some markets like UK), while even the Tier2 competitors like Alfa Romeo, Volvo, Saab, Lancia are starting to offer very premium & appealing products ...

The other problem is the image: since - as said by Chris - Europeans do care about heritage much. Some instant & artificially created premium brands stand no chance in Europe.

"Since 1989" just can't compete with eg. "Since 1909", "Since 1881", or "Since 1916" ...

You can't compete with a story like "In the early 20th century an automotive enthusiast & a great engineer XY started with automotive business in his own garage ..."
What Lexus can offer? "In late 80s Toyota marketing strategists from 15th floor of Toyota Corp. HQ created a completely new automotive brand using Toyota underpinnings & tech, putting lots of great equipment in the cars, and sell them for a low price".


Heritage & History matter very much in Europe ... So, the brands with great history & heritage can be easily marketed & instantly have an added value.

To be successful in Europe Lexus will have to address Euro values & needs ... not just copy the US Lexus formula here.

And having Lexus showrooms just beside Toyota dealerships does not help much either.

IMO an artificially created (automotive) brands are doomed in Europe.