Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Merc1]

I have always felt that MB benchmarked Tesla with the EQ offerings, hence the crap interior finishes and dodgy build solidity. The ICE models are still better built, and it's really only C-class and below that suffer in terms of finish. In fact the GLC finish is in itself a little bit of a step up from the C, with the hard plastics been limited to the doors, and from most reports it appears the E has stepped up it's game even relative to the 213.

Why would Mercedes benchmark Tesla for anything other than their EV tech? That doesn’t make sense for a company that wrote the book on how to screw a car together. What is so dodgy about the EQ cars build quality?

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Why would Mercedes benchmark Tesla for anything other than their EV tech? That doesn’t make sense for a company that wrote the book on how to screw a car together. What is so dodgy about the EQ cars build quality?

M

1. Because they are so margin driven. This is not the first time MB has cut cost for the sake of margin. They are well aware of Tesla's current market dominance and the Chinese are literally flooding markets with low priced EV's. MB's current EQ range has no demonstratable drivetrain advantage so the product price must be as sharp as possible. If Tesla can get away with shit plastics, they are probably thinking why can't they.

2. They wrote the book on how to screw a car together, but they have stayed from their own formula on many occasions.

3. The door panels on all of the EQ's are hard plastic, the door handles literally flex when under pressure, the dashboard trims groan and creak (akin to the w205 C and the W213 E), the door bins are not even lined, the panel gaps are clearly not within normal tolerance thresholds and I can't believe dealerships aren't even adjusting these before the cars are put on the showroom floor. I have previously posted videos demonstrating some of these issues.

I have driven an EQS53, EQE53 and have been chauffeured to the airport in the EQE450. The ride and refinement of the EQE450 was good, but the quality of the cabin was no better than a C-class. The EQS53 is not even close to an S-class in overall ambience and finish and build.

I have recently as last week attended an MB event where the some senior reps from MB OZ who visit MB Germany for product previews etc. were quite candid with me in acknowledging the build and finish issues of EQ's. In one's own words, 'The EQS is by no means an S-class, and should not have been marketed as such.'

Take the above for what you think it's worth, but there was clearly a deliberate decision to rip out costs from the EQ products where they could. What I don't think Mercedes acknowledges is a lot of their buyers would pay some extra $$ for upgraded finishes.

 

[Merc1]

1. Because they are so margin driven. This is not the first time MB has cut cost for the sake of margin. They are well aware of Tesla's current market dominance and the Chinese are literally flooding markets with low priced EV's. MB's current EQ range has no demonstratable drivetrain advantage so the product price must be as sharp as possible. If Tesla can get away with shit plastics, they are probably thinking why can't they.

2. They wrote the book on how to screw a car together, but they have stayed from their own formula on many occasions.

3. The door panels on all of the EQ's are hard plastic, the door handles literally flex when under pressure, the dashboard trims groan and creak (akin to the w205 C and the W213 E), the door bins are not even lined, the panel gaps are clearly not within normal tolerance thresholds and I can't believe dealerships aren't even adjusting these before the cars are put on the showroom floor. I have previously posted videos demonstrating some of these issues.

I have driven an EQS53, EQE53 and have been chauffeured to the airport in the EQE450. The ride and refinement of the EQE450 was good, but the quality of the cabin was no better than a C-class. The EQS53 is not even close to an S-class in overall ambience and finish and build.

I have recently as last week attended an MB event where the some senior reps from MB OZ who visit MB Germany for product previews etc. were quite candid with me in acknowledging the build and finish issues of EQ's. In one's own words, 'The EQS is by no means an S-class, and should not have been marketed as such.'

Take the above for what you think it's worth, but there was clearly a deliberate decision to rip out costs from the EQ products where they could. What I don't think Mercedes acknowledges is a lot of their buyers would pay some extra $$ for upgraded finishes.

I get all that, but I don't see what Tesla has to do with it. You don't need to benchmark Tesla in order to learn how to build a cheaper car. They did that all by themselves back in 1997 with the first generation ML. They've gotten away with this years ago before Tesla was a thing.

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I get all that, but I don't see what Tesla has to do with it. You don't need to benchmark Tesla in order to learn how to build a cheaper car. They did that all by themselves back in 1997 with the first generation ML. They've gotten away with this year ago before Tesla was a thing.

M

Benchmark is probably the wrong term. Agreed. It's probably more the the idea/belief that if Tesla can get away with this shit, then we probably could too.

 

[Merc1]

Benchmark is probably the wrong term. Agreed. It's probably more the the idea/belief that if Tesla can get away with this shit, then we probably could too.

I just don’t think Tesla has anything to do with it.

M

 

[Centurion]

1. Because they are so margin driven. This is not the first time MB has cut cost for the sake of margin. They are well aware of Tesla's current market dominance and the Chinese are literally flooding markets with low priced EV's. MB's current EQ range has no demonstratable drivetrain advantage so the product price must be as sharp as possible. If Tesla can get away with shit plastics, they are probably thinking why can't they.

2. They wrote the book on how to screw a car together, but they have stayed from their own formula on many occasions.

3. The door panels on all of the EQ's are hard plastic, the door handles literally flex when under pressure, the dashboard trims groan and creak (akin to the w205 C and the W213 E), the door bins are not even lined, the panel gaps are clearly not within normal tolerance thresholds and I can't believe dealerships aren't even adjusting these before the cars are put on the showroom floor. I have previously posted videos demonstrating some of these issues.

I have driven an EQS53, EQE53 and have been chauffeured to the airport in the EQE450. The ride and refinement of the EQE450 was good, but the quality of the cabin was no better than a C-class. The EQS53 is not even close to an S-class in overall ambience and finish and build.

I have recently as last week attended an MB event where the some senior reps from MB OZ who visit MB Germany for product previews etc. were quite candid with me in acknowledging the build and finish issues of EQ's. In one's own words, 'The EQS is by no means an S-class, and should not have been marketed as such.'

Take the above for what you think it's worth, but there was clearly a deliberate decision to rip out costs from the EQ products where they could. What I don't think Mercedes acknowledges is a lot of their buyers would pay some extra $$ for upgraded finishes.

I didn’t get a change to sit in the EQS. You are correct about the EQE, it’s a small improvement on the C in material choices in a few areas like dashboard and sections below your chest. To sum it up, the EQE cabin quality is what I expected of a car in the C class segment.

Good that you mentioned Tesla. Their interiors used to be a laughing stock. However the sub par fit finish and lack of premium/luxury ambiance has not hindered sales what so ever. The cars are probably considered so good to drive that customers are willing to overlook the interior. No wonder Mercedes havent bothered pursuing industry leading cabin quality. It’s a classic case of “first they laugh at you, then they join you”.

I hope that the gorgeous W213 is a solid(pun intended) step up on the C-Class.

 

[kiki voinea]

I feel like people around here have never entered a Tesla and only know Tesla from forums.

Tesla has WAY LESS PLASTIC than W206. Any Tesla. Especially Model S

W206 - Door is half exposed plastic
Center console , FULL plastic ( blabla piano black....NO , JUST PLASTIC )
Dash trim , if you don't gen an extra option , is plastic
Door trim for buttons , huge plastic (blablabla piano black ....NO , JUST PLASTIC )
I don't recall , but I think also the glove box is also hard plastic

Model S - 0 exposed plastic .
Center console is leather
Door trim is full leather
Dash trim is wood
Glove box is full leather


Cost cutting for MB is just margin increase. End user will still pay more.

And this is my "vendetta" with W206...HOW can you pay so much money for that piece of crap?

I am not talking from forums. I sat a few days in a loaner a friend of mine had for his broken AMG GT ( "MBs don't broke" ) . A car that did not had parking sensors , navigation , rear view camera, full of plastic , a car that starts at around 48000 euros



PS : I am not saying that Tesla is the best thing in the world. I am saying that W206 is way worse than Tesla.

And a "full option" version with better trims, a decent engine , and some fair options , will get you over 80000euros . FOR A C CLASS ! (not to mention the over 130000euros C63 )

Imagine paying 130000euros for a C63 , and still needing to pay 350 euros for USB ports...(code SA-72B for USB package ) ... in 2023 !!!

 

[Serpens]

Sorry Kiki, I just flat out disagree re: plastic when it comes with the W206 vs. Model 3. The Model 3 and Y have plastic everywhere. The Model S should be in comparison with the E-class. I've been in plenty of Model 3 and Y's as I have friends with them, I've driven them myself, and they're frequently used as Ubers where I live.

 

[kiki voinea]

Sorry Kiki, I just flat out disagree re: plastic when it comes with the W206 vs. Model 3. The Model 3 and Y have plastic everywhere. The Model S should be in comparison with the E-class. I've been in plenty of Model 3 and Y's as I have friends with them, I've driven them myself, and they're frequently used as Ubers where I live.

Maybe we see different things.

The W206 in the picture is a well equipped one , so keep that in mind.

The wood/carbon fiber dash is optional. The normal one is plastic (did not found a wide picture with plastic dash )

Also , only the door is plastic on the central console on the Model 3. The rest is leather. ( on W206 is fully plastic , with optional carbon/wood)

The under dash is some soft plastic in both cars

Both Tesla 3 and W206 have half hard plastic doors.


So , where is that plastic?

PS: I did not compare it with the Model S , because I honestly can't find any plastic in it. Even the side central console parts are leather....(plastic in both W206 and Model 3 )

 

[Centurion]

The under dash is some soft plastic in both cars

For which trim of C-Class? The W206 that I sat in this week in the UK, had Dacia-level hallow and scratchy and hallow plastic on the door cards and lower half of the dashboard.

I have a video but it’s too large to upload.

 

[kiki voinea]

For which trim of C-Class? The W206 that I sat in this week in the UK, had Dacia-level hallow and scratchy and hallow plastic on the door cards and lower half of the dashboard.

I have a video but it’s too large to upload.

Honestly , I can't remember precisely . But you might be right. I was not sure when I wrote the post ( sat in the W206 2 months ago ) . But for sure it looked like trash. And quality was more than inferior.

But in the Model 3 I drove it yesterday , wrote exactly what I saw.

Again , not saying that Tesla is the best thing.

Just saying that W206 is trash. Especially for that a 50000 euros car...

 

[Centurion]

Here is my heavily compressed video.

Honestly , I can't remember precisely . But you might be right. I was not sure when I wrote the post ( sat in the W206 2 months ago ) . But for sure it looked like trash. And quality was more than inferior.

But in the Model 3 I drove it yesterday , wrote exactly what I saw.

Again , not saying that Tesla is the best thing.

Just saying that W206 is trash. Especially for that a 50000 euros car...

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Seems like the W206 is the worst thought out C-class in modern history.
From the interior to the drivetrain options. Almost like Merc made it as a holdover until the MMA C-class is ready for sale.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

According to the German TÜV:
The Tesla Model 3 fails the TÜV test more often than average. 14.7 percent of two- to three-year-old cars are certified as having “significant defects” during the general inspection. For comparison: the average rate for the age group was 5.7 percent.

Than I’d rather have a C class that maybe doesn’t use premium materials for it’s interior, but at least doesn’t give all kind of problems in no-time. The model 3 was even worse than Dacia.

 

[Tourbillon]

Mercedes-AMG boss: C63 will stay 4cyl, fully-electric performance car by 2025

The C63 will keep the four-pot hybrid, but AMG has bigger electrification plans!

'Recent speculation has suggested Mercedes-AMG is planning on ditching the new C63’s four-cylinder hybrid. It’s not. Like it or not that’s here to stay.

Speaking to TopGear.com, Michael Schiebe, AMG’s CEO, said: “I know there is some talk in town about ’why did you kick out the V8 from that car?’. But we want to be very, very progressive when it comes to technology. And we are convinced of the hybridisation concept, there we will stay with the four cylinder.

“We take into consideration what is the target market? So for example, the Chinese market is not very strong in terms of coupes, but very strong in sedans.” In other words AMG sells more C63s saloons in China than it does in Europe, and the Chinese are embracing electrification and don’t have our attachment to the V8.

“Will we convince each V8 lover of the [C63 hybrid] concept? I don't think so. But at the same time, we conquered many, many new customers that we wouldn't have done with the V8.”

So how do you keep Europe satisfied? There’s a CLE 53 on the way with a twin-turbo straight six. So is there more headroom in that 3.0-litre to wring out more performance? “We will see if there are more products to come with that engine. The US market plays a big role for that car. And there the six cylinder engine is an important one.” Encouraging stuff. However, the straight six is a BMW signature – could this be AMG launching itself at the M4's jugular?"

Continues.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/hybrid/mercedes-amg-boss-c63-will-stay-4cyl-fully-electric-performance-car-2025

 

[Serpens]

Well that was a fluff piece. No new information there.

 

[Jonathan19]

Mercedes-AMG boss: C63 will stay 4cyl, fully-electric performance car by 2025

I stop at "C63 will stay 4cyl"

V8 is really what a top level 63 HAVE to be!

Even if they put hybrid it's still sound and feel right, all reviews about the S63 E-Performance said it.

Why AMG think this was the way to go!?

Thanks god they keep the pure V8 for the GT63!

 

[Tourbillon]

I stop at "C63 will stay 4cyl"

V8 is really what a top level 63 HAVE to be!

Even if they put hybrid it's still sound and feel right, all reviews about the S63 E-Performance said it.

Why AMG think this was the way to go!?

Thanks god they keep the pure V8 for the GT63!

I know man. It's crazy in some ways as the clients or customers are always supposed to be right. However on this occasion it looks like they are sticking to their guns.

At one point it seemed they'd relent. And agreed on GT63!

 

[Centurion]

“We take into consideration what is the target market? So for example, the Chinese market is not very strong in terms of coupes, but very strong in sedans.” In other words AMG sells more C63s saloons in China than it does in Europe, and the Chinese are embracing electrification and don’t have our attachment to the V8.

It's fascinating how is growing to become more important than home markets for European car manufacturers.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

It's fascinating how is growing to become more important than home markets for European car manufacturers.

Money is money, and 1.4 billion people basically rivals the entire population of continental Europe