Random Thoughts...

[Big Sam]

5 mins is a tolerable pause for most people. Especially if they're doing hours of driving.

I wonder how many minutes per month EV drivers save by plugging in at home every night and not even having to visit a petrol station?


And if we're talking long distance driving, I prefer it in an EV because it literally has zero impact on journey times, and it's a nicer experience charging than pumping fuel. I'm now several years into EV ownership with multiple different cars, and it makes me laugh some of the complete garbage people with very little experience come out with.

 

[Swissbob]

Yes, that's the point.

You're talking about filling an ICE in five or six minutes, and EV drivers are thinking,"wow, imagine not waking up in the morning and your tank has been filled while you were sleeping".

As a EV with Wallbox Owner I know both worlds.

And you’re absolutely right.

The biggest issue regarding current EVs is the huge loss of value.

 

[Big Sam]

As a EV with Wallbox Owner I know both worlds.

And you’re absolutely right.

The biggest issue regarding current EVs is the huge loss of value.

So then why were you fussing over the time it takes to charge?

 

[Swissbob]

I wonder how many minutes per month EV drivers save by plugging in at home every night and not even having to visit a petrol station?


And if we're talking long distance driving, I prefer it in an EV because it literally has zero impact on journey times, and it's a nicer experience charging than pumping fuel. I'm now several years into EV ownership with multiple different cars, and it makes me laugh some of the complete garbage people with very little experience come out with.

That depends how much you drive, Diesel powered cars do have a range of approximately 600miles(960km) per Tank.

2-3 times per/month is normal here in Switzerland so 10-15min/month.


I drive EVs since 2019.

But on long distances I always prefer my ICE Cars.

On short distances which I can travel without using the Fast charging network, EVs are fine.

But I would only lease them and change them every 3 oder 4 years.

 

[Swissbob]

So then why were you fussing over the time it takes to charge?

I was just curious to see how long it takes to fill it up.

Because that’s something really nobody talks about.

If EVs could charge with 1000kW, It would be very close to a fossil powered car. 100kWh in 6min.

 

[Swissbob]

I don't look at either of those cars and think, "BMW have made the best car they could".

Tesla Y Juniper.

 

[Big Sam]

I was just curious to see how long it takes to fill it up.

Because that’s something really nobody talks about.

If EVs could charge with 1000kW, It would be very close to a fossil powered car. 100kWh in 6min.

My Macan has a peak of 270 kW, and it's already pretty much there in terms of what you need on a long journey. I genuinely mean it when I say it's no slower than an ICE, and I'm someone who's done mainly long distance driving multiple times per month for the last 25-years. The last trip was two days ago. Over the next ten days I'll be driving around 3,000km on a road trip to the North of England, down to the South West of England, and then back to Holland.

What *does* need to change is people's "ICE mindset" when driving EVs. People have no clue about charging strategy and just act like they're driving petrol or diesel cars.

Tesla Y Juniper.

No.

 

[Matski]

Now tell us how long it takes to fill your diesel-powered car at home.

I lived 326 metres from a petrol station when I was living in this flat...

I had my E36 at the time, which cost £1019 when I bought it. I dare say driving to the petrol station and filling up, which would have yielded 400 miles/645km range*, would probably have been faster than trying to add the same to an EV from a 2nd floor flat. I'm sure it's nice to be able to fill up for little more than free... but since there's no way I'd have been able to afford an EV at the time, nor charge it at home, I guess I had to settle for the ~£1000 a year in petrol costs instead.

*subject to right foot weight.

My Dad has a lot more money than I do, this is his big house in an expensive village, that was built before the car was invented...

The blue line indicates his walk to where the he has to park his car. That'd be quite the charging cable.

This is my friends house, that he had built from the foundations up, and the solar panels that mean he pays basically nothing to power his car, which has it's own space on his property...

.. this friend, by the way, is the one that grew up tuning carbs/timing to literally spit fire for maximum effect, and now swears by EVs.

I am absolutely sure that if you can afford a long range fast charging EV, and a house with connected off-street parking, and the charger, it seems like a no-brainer... but that's absolutely not the case for a substantial number of people. I've said it before and I'll say it again, EV viability cannot hinge on owning enough land to park your car on, no matter your perspective, this is objectively true.

 

[Swissbob]

My Macan has a peak of 270 kW, and it's already pretty much there in terms of what you need on a long journey. I genuinely mean it when I say it's no slower than an ICE, and I'm someone who's done mainly long distance driving multiple times per month for the last 25-years. The last trip was two days ago. Over the next ten days I'll be driving around 3,000km on a road trip to the North of England, down to the South West of England, and then back to Holland.

What *does* need to change is people's "ICE mindset" when driving EVs. People have no clue about charging strategy and just act like they're driving petrol or diesel cars.




No.

I fully agree on this sentence

Out of curiosity, why do you change the Macan? It’s currently one of the best EVs on the market.

 

[Swissbob]

@Matski
One big Issue is also how strong is your electricity. The old houses usually use electricity only for the lights.
Heating, warm water and the kitchen work with gas.

I installed 32A x3 which means 22kW AC, my wallbox limits it to 11kW.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I lived 326 metres from a petrol station when I was living in this flat...

I had my E36 at the time, which cost £1019 when I bought it. I dare say driving to the petrol station and filling up, which would have yielded 400 miles/645km range*, would probably have been faster than trying to add the same to an EV from a 2nd floor flat. I'm sure it's nice to be able to fill up for little more than free... but since there's no way I'd have been able to afford an EV at the time, nor charge it at home, I guess I had to settle for the ~£1000 a year in petrol costs instead.

*subject to right foot weight.

My Dad has a lot more money than I do, this is his big house in an expensive village, that was built before the car was invented...

The blue line indicates his walk to where the he has to park his car. That'd be quite the charging cable.

This is my friends house, that he had built from the foundations up, and the solar panels that mean he pays basically nothing to power his car, which has it's own space on his property...

.. this friend, by the way, is the one that grew up tuning carbs/timing to literally spit fire for maximum effect, and now swears by EVs.

I am absolutely sure that if you can afford a long range fast charging EV, and a house with connected off-street parking, and the charger, it seems like a no-brainer... but that's absolutely not the case for a substantial number of people. I've said it before and I'll say it again, EV viability cannot hinge on owning enough land to park your car on, no matter your perspective, this is objectively true.

Street chargers are becoming more common. They're plugs in the lampposts that you can use to charge your cars.
Most new apartment blocks have a minimum requirement for EV charging these days too, I think.

It'll take time. But we'll get there hopefully

 

[Big Sam]

I lived 326 metres from a petrol station when I was living in this flat...

I had my E36 at the time, which cost £1019 when I bought it. I dare say driving to the petrol station and filling up, which would have yielded 400 miles/645km range*, would probably have been faster than trying to add the same to an EV from a 2nd floor flat. I'm sure it's nice to be able to fill up for little more than free... but since there's no way I'd have been able to afford an EV at the time, nor charge it at home, I guess I had to settle for the ~£1000 a year in petrol costs instead.

*subject to right foot weight.

My Dad has a lot more money than I do, this is his big house in an expensive village, that was built before the car was invented...

The blue line indicates his walk to where the he has to park his car. That'd be quite the charging cable.

This is my friends house, that he had built from the foundations up, and the solar panels that mean he pays basically nothing to power his car, which has it's own space on his property...

.. this friend, by the way, is the one that grew up tuning carbs/timing to literally spit fire for maximum effect, and now swears by EVs.

I am absolutely sure that if you can afford a long range fast charging EV, and a house with connected off-street parking, and the charger, it seems like a no-brainer... but that's absolutely not the case for a substantial number of people. I've said it before and I'll say it again, EV viability cannot hinge on owning enough land to park your car on, no matter your perspective, this is objectively true.

I know we've discussed this before, but yes, not everybody has home charging, but then I only use my home charger once per month on average. I have cheap charging at work which means it's better financially to charge at work, and sell my excess home energy back to the grid.

Even then, while it may be less convenient not having a home charger, it wouldn't be that difficult to get by without one. You just charge when going about your daily life.

Anyway, the point I was responding to was about the speed of charging compared with ICEs on long distance journeys, I don't think there's much difference already, and my data demonstrates that, with no appreciable difference between recorded journey times between ICE and EV.

I'm in the Macan at the moment, driving Surrey to Leeds tonight, and then late next week Leeds to Devon, and then Devon to Holland in ten days. Do people think I'd have chosen that for a road trip if our petrol C-Class was more convenient?I absolutely wouldn't. The truth is, there's nothing in it.

I fully agree on this sentence

Out of curiosity, why do you change the Macan? It’s currently one of the best EVs on the market.

I'm not changing the Macan. The new car isn't replacing anything.

 

[Design FIRST]

What *does* need to change is people's "ICE mindset" when driving EVs. People have no clue about charging strategy and just act like they're driving petrol or diesel cars.

The "EV versus ICE" issue has indeed become increasingly "politicized", hence leading to mindsets that are often resistent to the most compelling of arguments. Oddly, it appears that many BEV critics are affluent and could actually easily afford the most effective, most elaborate home charging apparatus. Solar panel fed wallbox + auxiliary storage battery unit (required for overnight charging). The substantial reduction in vehicle running costs would lead to relatively rapid amortization. Even here in Germany, a country with notoriously high electricity costs, an overnight 20%-to-80% charge for a net 90+kW net capacity battery would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 8.50 Euros.

 

[Swissbob]

The "EV versus ICE" issue has indeed become increasingly "politicized", hence leading to mindsets that are often resistent to the most compelling of arguments. Oddly, it appears that many BEV critics are affluent and could actually easily afford the most effective, most elaborate home charging apparatus. Solar panel fed wallbox + auxiliary storage battery unit (required for overnight charging). The substantial reduction in vehicle running costs would lead to relatively rapid amortization. Even here in Germany, a country with notoriously high electricity costs, an overnight 20%-to-80% charge for a net 90+kW net capacity battery would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 8.50 Euros.

They see what’s going on with the residuals of the EV.

This is currently the main problem. Depending on the car, you really need to drive 40-60k km/yr to compensate for the difference in residual value.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

They see what’s going on with the residuals of the EV.

This is currently the main problem. Depending on the car, you really need to drive 40-60k km/yr to compensate for the difference in residual value.

Residuals are never great in a rapidly evolving market. The issue is, EVs are too expensive for most people to buy in the first place.

 

[Swissbob]

Residuals are never great in a rapidly evolving market. The issue is, EVs are too expensive for most people to buy in the first place.

This is exactly the problem. If you compare a Q8 e-tron with the Q8 TDI you need to drive a lot, and you need cheap electricity, to compensate for the huge difference regarding the residuals.

People are driving what’s cheaper for them, even If they spend 120k on a car.

If they want emotions they buy a RSQ8 instead.

 

[Design FIRST]

They see what’s going on with the residuals of the EV.

This is currently the main problem. Depending on the car, you really need to drive 40-60k km/yr to compensate for the difference in residual value.

Although the residual dilemma is far less relevant when vehicles are leased. And here in Germany, private leasing is becoming increasingly popular as well as financially increasingly plausible. One could also add that a rash of andecdotal "horror stories" regarding rapid battery degradation that circulate in the media have been refuted by independent certified vehicle inspection agencies as well as automotive media outlets that have contracted the assessment of batteries following extended tests of BEVs. Hence, simply holding on to a purchased rather than leased BEV can also make sense. Not to mention considering purchasing, for example, a used Porsche Taycan. Very good examples with low mileage and comprehensive waranties are going for under 60K Euros. To me, that sounds like a proposition well worth considering.

 

[Big Sam]

The "EV versus ICE" issue has indeed become increasingly "politicized", hence leading to mindsets that are often resistent to the most compelling of arguments. Oddly, it appears that many BEV critics are affluent and could actually easily afford the most effective, most elaborate home charging apparatus. Solar panel fed wallbox + auxiliary storage battery unit (required for overnight charging). The substantial reduction in vehicle running costs would lead to relatively rapid amortization. Even here in Germany, a country with notoriously high electricity costs, an overnight 20%-to-80% charge for a net 90+kW net capacity battery would cost somewhere in the vicinity of 8.50 Euros.

90% of what I read online about EVs is factually incorrect, clickbait, ragebait nonsense. It’s draining.

AI generated BS designed to get people angry, with comments sections filled with people who know nothing about about EVs feeling qualified to talk about them. It’s symptomatic of media in the current age. Amplifying lies, the classic example being whenever a vehicle catches fire. Numerous examples of big stories where an EV a was blamed for catching fire (Luton Airport car park and Heathrow Airport Tunnel), and then it turned out to be an ICE car. But by that point it’s too late. The general public think it was an EV.

This is exactly the problem. If you compare a Q8 e-tron with the Q8 TDI you need to drive a lot, and you need cheap electricity, to compensate for the huge difference regarding the residuals.

People are driving what’s cheaper for them, even If they spend 120k on a car.

If they want emotions they buy a RSQ8 instead.

I used to think like that, but then I drove an EV and I just realised the EV is simply a better car that I’m not even comparing them and the residuals make no difference.

The “emotional” and “sporty” argument is also one I made a few years ago before I’d driven an EV, and now I get much more driving enjoyment from EVs. The instant response of the throttle is something that can be enjoyed every single moment you’re behind the wheel of an EV, which cannot be said for most ICEs nowadays. Yes, I’ve got a Porsche Macan Turbo, but my new arrival is one of the cheapest cars on sale, and yet it’s one of most fun cars of the last five years, and that’s before you even unlock it…

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I used to think like that, but then I drove an EV and I just realised the EV is simply a better car that I’m not even comparing them and the residuals make no difference.

The vast majority of people in the UK (and globally) cannot afford any new car at all, forget about "the best". Those that can, absolutely will care about residuals, because they can't just take the hit. I earn a decent amount of money, but not enough to pay £500+/month on an EV. Certainly don't have a spare £10,000 lying around for a deposit on a lease.

The issue is cars in general are far too expensive for ordinary people these days. And when people force themselves to buy a new or second hand car because they NEED it, they will absolutely care about residuals.

 

[Swissbob]

@Big Sam
Renault 5 or 4?