G-Class [Official] Mercedes-Benz G-Class (W464)

[Swissbob]

MB executive’s common issue is that they’re looking for big volumes from otherwise niche offerings. Then they get triggered happy when sales doesn’t meet forecasts.

They pumped way too much EQ’s expecting big volumes, now dealers worldwide are literally giving away EQ’s with huge discount and begging MB corporate to stop sending them. EQ’s that they get on trade are immediately sent to auction. They’re producing way too many SL’s, another niche offering, so the days of supply volume is months long in most markets. I have my concerns that the R232 will be the last SL.

The S Class coupé, arguably one of the best executive coupé’s of this century, was discontinued due to low volume. But the lineage had a very niche and loyal client base that either bought their S’ off lease or have since moved on to a more exclusive brand.

The G580 should be a make-to-order car, with expectations that it will be a low volume offering for those looking for an eco-friendly retro-esque SUV or in certain markets as @klier stated.

I full agree with you.

The S-Class Coupé was in fact cancelled for the EQS, I got this information through my dealer,MB confirmed this to him.

The C217 is one of the best cars ever.

Currently there are no alternatives on the market, the spectre is an EV(which is nonsense in this class), the Continental GT is in comparison very tight.

The problem from the R232 is, it’s to sporty and to cheap inside.

There’s no simple straight 6 SL450 or a even 680 with a proper V12, and without a stiff suspension.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I full agree with you.

The S-Class Coupé was in fact cancelled for the EQS, I got this information through my dealer,MB confirmed this to him.

The C217 is one of the best cars ever.

Currently there are no alternatives on the market, the spectre is an EV(which is nonsense in this class), the Continental GT is in comparison very tight.

The problem from the R232 is, it’s to sporty and to cheap inside.

There’s no simple straight 6 SL450 or a even 680 with a proper V12, and without a stiff suspension.

Yes..... Make a C218. Long as it's as beautiful and elegant; inside and out, as the C217, it'll be a winner. Coupe skus as follows:

Global
S450 I6 476PS/650Nm
S580 V8 525ps/750Nm
S63 V8 640ps/900Nm

Special markets/Manufaktur only:
S680 V12 630ps/950Nm
S65 V12 670ps /1000+Nm

Do it.

 

[Swissbob]

Yes..... Make a C218. Long as it's as beautiful and elegant; inside and out, as the C217, it'll be a winner. Coupe skus as follows:

Global
S450 I6 476PS/650Nm
S580 V8 525ps/750Nm
S63 V8 640ps/900Nm

Special markets/Manufaktur only:
S680 V12 630ps/950Nm
S65 V12 670ps /1000+Nm

Do it.

Yes please, especially If they add a convertible.

S680 convertible please.

 

[klier]

Yes..... Make a C218. Long as it's as beautiful and elegant; inside and out, as the C217, it'll be a winner. Coupe skus as follows:

Global
S450 I6 476PS/650Nm
S580 V8 525ps/750Nm
S63 V8 640ps/900Nm

Special markets/Manufaktur only:
S680 V12 630ps/950Nm
S65 V12 670ps /1000+Nm

Do it.

The V12 needs more power.
750 ps should be no problem. The same or less than the V8 is ridiculous.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The V12 needs more power.
750 ps should be no problem. The same or less than the V8 is ridiculous.

Just for the non-AMG. You really don't need much more than 630 which is what the Maybach 680 has.
But yeah with an AMG V12 that motor is capable of a lot more power if they feel like validating it. I'm certain I read that when Mercedes built it they could get like 1200+Nm from it but limited it to "just" 1000Nm because they couldn't be bothered to build a gearbox to handle that much torque in the early 2000s. 1000Nm from 2000-5000rpm at the time was basically unheard of.

The M279 and it's predecessors also have a rather low redline, which I'm sure they could bump up for more top end power, if they fiddle with the parameters.

 

[Swissbob]

It doesn’t like to rev because it’s still a 3 valve ohc engine.
For me personally 630hp are more than enough.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

It doesn’t like to rev because it’s still a 3 valve ohc engine.

And why so?

 

[Swissbob]

And why so?

It’s optimized for fuel efficiency, and uses 2 spark plugs.

It’s based on the M112/113 engines, which were introduced in the late 90s.

Mercedes-Benz M275 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Mercedes Benz V12 M275/M285/M279

Mercedes-Benz M279 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The engine is more or less 23years old.

Everything happens between 2000-5000rpm.

 

[Merc1]

I don’t think the SL’s problem is its suspension, it’s overpriced and that segment is dead or dying. The old softer SL450/550 buyer wasn’t buying and/or moved on. I do agree that that the SL680 should have been a V12.

M

 

[Swissbob]

My dealer told me the main complaint is the to stiff suspension, der R231 was way softer.
I agree that it’s overpriced, the non AMG version is missing in the lineup.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

It’s optimized for fuel efficiency, and uses 2 spark plugs.

It’s based on the M112/113 engines, which were introduced in the late 90s.

Mercedes-Benz M275 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Mercedes Benz V12 M275/M285/M279

Mercedes-Benz M279 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The engine is more or less 23years old.

Everything happens between 2000-5000rpm.

Its quite a remarkable engine all things considered.
The amount of torque and power it produces despite being basically a 30 year old engine design is insane.

 

[Merc1]

The car was reimagined as an AMG because that buyer was dying out. There weren’t enough of them. One dealer is just one dealer.

M

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The car was reimagined as an AMG because that buyer was dying out. There weren’t enough of them. One dealer is just one dealer.

M

Yes. Unfortunately the high end luxury 2-seater convertible is a dying breed.
The CLE cab works because it's (relatively) affordable, is a bit sporty and crucially, it has 4 seats.

But at the SL's price bracket it needs to be a sports car. In fact any 2 seater car these days MUST be a sports car. And the R129 onwards were everything but sporty.

I suspect they would have canned the SL entirely and just had the GT + a roadster variant, but the SL is an iconic name place for Mercedes. So they brought it back to the original 300SL's mission of being a state of the art sports car and then gave it back seats to try and broaden the appeal. Unfortunately its not very licht, but seems to be a decent car overall.

I guess this is why the S coupe/cab got dropped too, though I think the S coupe line would still do better than a soft riding 2-seater SL.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

It’s optimized for fuel efficiency, and uses 2 spark plugs.

It’s based on the M112/113 engines, which were introduced in the late 90s.

Mercedes-Benz M275 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Mercedes Benz V12 M275/M285/M279

Mercedes-Benz M279 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The engine is more or less 23years old.

Everything happens between 2000-5000rpm.

The 3 valve system has nothing to do with this

 

[Swissbob]

The 3 valve system has nothing to do with this

Feel free to correct me. It‘s a bit lazy , but only compared to the 4 valve system, which is much rev happier.
However the 3 valve system is better than the 2 valve engine.

Eventually it depends from the head and camshaft design, which in this case was optimized for low end torque.
Remember this engine was developed for the original Maybach 57/62.
It’s a gorgeous engine, but not a race horse.

 

[Swissbob]

The car was reimagined as an AMG because that buyer was dying out. There weren’t enough of them. One dealer is just one dealer.

M

I think you’re right about their thoughts. They wanted to built a competitor for the 911, which failed miserably.

In my case , this Dealer sold a big chunk of all SLs in Switzerland, therefore he knows his customers.

For the GTC driver the current SL is to comfy, for the SL driver it’s to stiff.

 

[Swissbob]

Yes. Unfortunately the high end luxury 2-seater convertible is a dying breed.
The CLE cab works because it's (relatively) affordable, is a bit sporty and crucially, it has 4 seats.

But at the SL's price bracket it needs to be a sports car. In fact any 2 seater car these days MUST be a sports car. And the R129 onwards were everything but sporty.

I suspect they would have canned the SL entirely and just had the GT + a roadster variant, but the SL is an iconic name place for Mercedes. So they brought it back to the original 300SL's mission of being a state of the art sports car and then gave it back seats to try and broaden the appeal. Unfortunately its not very licht, but seems to be a decent car overall.

I guess this is why the S coupe/cab got dropped too, though I think the S coupe line would still do better than a soft riding 2-seater SL.

The problem of the CLE is it’s cheap interior, it’s cheaper than the E and even C convertible.
Interior space is on par with the E convertible.
I should get a CLE450 for a couple of days in the next weeks,I am really curious how well it drives.

On that point that a 2 seater must be sporty I disagree, the Continental GTC is almost a 2 seater, and it’s very comfy and successful.

They did a 911 competitor instead of a Continental GTC competitor, my main concern is, that there are no non AMG versions.

A SL450 and SL580 with softer (E-ABC) suspension could be fantastic additions to the line up.

The reason why it’s not light, is cost cutting, the R231 had a ASF (aluminum space frame), that made that car surprisingly light. This was again a mistake, producing the GT and the SL without a aluminum body.

The 217 lineup was simply to cramped compared to the 238, the difference in the interior space was to small.
Here in Europe there were no cars at the dealerships.

People didn’t know that these cars exist.
The main difference (apart from the engines and the more luxurious interior) has been the drive.

I agree a new generation of S coupe and convertibles would do better than a softer SL.

 

[Merc1]

I think you’re right about their thoughts. They wanted to built a competitor for the 911, which failed miserably.

In my case , this Dealer sold a big chunk of all SLs in Switzerland, therefore he knows his customers.

For the GTC driver the current SL is to comfy, for the SL driver it’s to stiff.

I really don’t think it’s a direct competitor to the 911. It just doesn’t have that. My point is that it’s still one dealer in one area. A small market at that. He can’t speak as to why buyers all over the world may or may not buy an SL. The Conti GTC is true 4-seat convertible, the SL has never been that nor should it be. The S Coupe fulfilled that role.

M

 

[Swissbob]

I really don’t think it’s a direct competitor to the 911. It just doesn’t have that. My point is that it’s still one dealer in one area. A small market at that. He can’t speak as to why buyers all over the world may or may not buy an SL.

M

I agree, compared to the worldwide market we are indeed a very small market.

Regarding 911 competitor, that’s what stood in the official documents for the dealerships.
In fact the 911 Turbo is their direct competitor, that explains the price point, TBH compared to this car the SL63 is simply to slow.

 

[Jonathan19]

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