GT [Official] The all-new Mercedes-AMG GT Coupé

[GTA45E]

Gabriel Macht and AMG make a great duo..

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[Jonathan19]

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[leylandi]

 

[Merc1]

What are we looking at?

M

 

[Rolf]

I wonder when AMG will launch a more hardcore GT R version of the new AMG GT. It should be RWD with lightweight CF panels and stripped out interior and with the 639PS version of the AMG V8. Would be a more focused drivers car than the Pro model.

 

[Jonathan19]

I wonder when AMG will launch a more hardcore GT R version of the new AMG GT. It should be RWD with lightweight CF panels and stripped out interior and with the 639PS version of the AMG V8. Would be a more focused drivers car than the Pro model.

They really need to shed a lot of weight to make an 'effective' track version.

 

[Gor134]

I wonder when AMG will launch a more hardcore GT R version of the new AMG GT. It should be RWD with lightweight CF panels and stripped out interior and with the 639PS version of the AMG V8. Would be a more focused drivers car than the Pro model.

They might be waiting for the new engine to be ready

 

[sako97]

They really need to shed a lot of weight to make an 'effective' track version.

The previous AMG GTR and GT Black reached the pinnacle of front-engined track-ready sports cars. It’s a shame that the GTR especially was not fully appreciated commercially. The one time I drove a AMG GTR it left me floored and I preferred it to the then 991 GT3. The adaptive chassis, powertrain, driver position, and relatively low weight were all the right ingredients for a highly-competitive car.

I have a hard time accepting this gen GT - it’s a derivative of the SL, it’s too heavy, and too expensive. As a result, no 911 buyer will cross-shop it… and this is the market MB has been trying to attract. Even a theoretical GT Black series will struggle on track with the new 992 GTS from a physics standpoint. Exterior looks is the one thing going for the GT.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I have a hard time accepting this gen GT - it’s a derivative of the SL, it’s too heavy, and too expensive. As a result, no 911 buyer will cross-shop it… and this is the market MB has been trying to attract. Even a theoretical GT Black series will struggle on track with the new 992 GTS from a physics standpoint. Exterior looks is the one thing going for the GT.

I have said it for some time now, the AMG GT is a very different proposition to a 911 IMO. While it's everyday road performance is comparable, its track performance will be off the pace without significant weight saving measures or an unbearably harsh suspension set up.

I've driven several examples on a few occasions now. It is a fantastic car IMO, but more like a cross between a 911 Turbo and an S-Coupe. It delivers a depth of luxury, refinement and interior technology that the 911 can not match.

They should have accepted it is not a 911 competitor, given the sheer weight of the platform, liberated more rear seat room, offered a range of suspension tunes, or broadened the range offered within the current dynamic select settings, and been clearer in their market positioning.

MB's product planning decisions have been an absolute mess since the departure of Zetsche, IMO.

 

[Design FIRST]

They should have accepted it is not a 911 competitor, given the sheer weight of the platform, liberated more rear seat room, offered a range of suspension tunes, or broadened the range offered within the current dynamic select settings, and been clearer in their market positioning.

Agree. The notion of competing with the Porsche 911 is an exercise in futility IMHO. A genuinely "useable" rear passenger compartment for human beings with legs would be more compelling. Jogging the imagination...a sort of rejuvination of the C107 500 SLC spirit with just a dash of steroids added. And as drop dead handsome as the AMG GT coupe is, it strikes me as being "neither here nor there". Not quite the continent carving oppulent GT...not quite the genuine sportscar. In addition, the vast assortment of possibilities that the 911 line of cars offer cover so many more bases, it seems.

 

[Swissbob]

The previous AMG GTR and GT Black reached the pinnacle of front-engined track-ready sports cars. It’s a shame that the GTR especially was not fully appreciated commercially. The one time I drove a AMG GTR it left me floored and I preferred it to the then 991 GT3. The adaptive chassis, powertrain, driver position, and relatively low weight were all the right ingredients for a highly-competitive car.

I have a hard time accepting this gen GT - it’s a derivative of the SL, it’s too heavy, and too expensive. As a result, no 911 buyer will cross-shop it… and this is the market MB has been trying to attract. Even a theoretical GT Black series will struggle on track with the new 992 GTS from a physics standpoint. Exterior looks is the one thing going for the GT.

I fully agree with you.

The problem are the bean counters, the C190 was all aluminum. That’s why it was so light.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I fully agree with you.

The problem are the bean counters, the C190 was all aluminum. That’s why it was so light.

Does anyone know the specifics of MSA? It's supposed to be all-aluminium and compatible with composites too? The C192 chassis is supposed to be even more rigid than C190.

I really would like to have an off-record chat with an AMG engineer and find out why the SL and GT are so heavy. Is it all safety suite stuff? Is it because they wanted it to be more grand tourer than sports car, with more insulation?

GT seems to be more sorted out than the SL in terms of compliance and ride comfort spread. So it's not at all a bad platform.

They are homologating a new GT3 racecar, so I do wonder if the platform and chassis has the capability of being significantly lightened.

 

[Swissbob]

Does anyone know the specifics of MSA? It's supposed to be all-aluminium and compatible with composites too? The C192 chassis is supposed to be even more rigid than C190.

I really would like to have an off-record chat with an AMG engineer and find out why the SL and GT are so heavy. Is it all safety suite stuff? Is it because they wanted it to be more grand tourer than sports car, with more insulation?

GT seems to be more sorted out than the SL in terms of compliance and ride comfort spread. So it's not at all a bad platform.

They are homologating a new GT3 racecar, so I do wonder if the platform and chassis has the capability of being significantly lightened.

I discussed this topic with my dealer who asked exactly that question on the dealers meeting , 80kg is because of 4matic, 220kg is because of steel instead of aluminum .
They used it to safe money. They also binned the Li-Ion 12V battery which was also 25kg lighter.
This is 325kg difference.

4matic with transaxle would be to complicated (although Nissan did it on the GT-R).

4matic was essential because of the snow belt in the USA.

The 9G MCT and DCT are almost the same weight.

 

[Matski]

They are homologating a new GT3 racecar, so I do wonder if the platform and chassis has the capability of being significantly lightened.

I don't think that really indicates anything in this context.

Pretty much every car that's been homologated for GT3 comes in under 1300kg - irrespective of the chassis construction. IIRC the Bentley GT3 was steel underneath, they still took almost a literal tonne out of it, and made <1300kg for homologation.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I don't think that really indicates anything in this context.

Pretty much every car that's been homologated for GT3 comes in under 1300kg - irrespective of the chassis construction. IIRC the Bentley GT3 was steel underneath, they still took almost a literal tonne out of it, and made <1300kg for homologation.

The question is, how much of that can be translated into a roadcar. An AMG GTR.

 

[Matski]

The question is, how much of that can be translated into a road car. An AMG GTR.

The GT3 will loose weight by not having 4-matic, rear wheel steering, an interior (including all the airbags, most of the climate control, infotainment etc), a road car gearbox or clutch, a road going hybrid system, metal body panels, the road car's steering or suspension components, exterior lighting, radiator, intercooler, emissions control system and countless other small bits and pieces. It'll gain weight because of a few things too, FIA mandated steel-roll cage for example - which wouldn't have to be added in to a theoretical road car. I don't know what of that Mercedes can do, or would do, or what the cost of it would be.

I think the better question is, how much do lighter versions of cars normally manage to save, and why would this be any different.

I'd estimate it could weigh half the difference between the lightest standard series edition of the car, and 1400kg (typical GT4 weight), less than that standard car... pure guess work.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The GT3 will loose weight by not having 4-matic, rear wheel steering, an interior (including all the airbags, most of the climate control, infotainment etc), a road car gearbox or clutch, a road going hybrid system, metal body panels, the road car's steering or suspension components, exterior lighting, radiator, intercooler, emissions control system and countless other small bits and pieces. It'll gain weight because of a few things too, FIA mandated steel-roll cage for example - which wouldn't have to be added in to a theoretical road car. I don't know what of that Mercedes can do, or would do, or what the cost of it would be.

I think the better question is, how much do lighter versions of cars normally manage to save, and why would this be any different.

I'd estimate it could weigh half the difference between the lightest standard series edition of the car, and 1400kg (typical GT4 weight), less than that standard car... pure guess work.

Halfway between 1400 and 1900kg is about 1650kg which is about what the original GTR weighed iirc, so I think that would be more than good enough. I'd take anything less than 1700kg as a win tbh.

 

[Matski]

Halfway between 1400 and 1900kg is about 1650kg which is about what the original GTR weighed iirc, so I think that would be more than good enough. I'd take anything less than 1700kg as a win tbh.

I wouldn't get your hopes up!

edit: As an aside...

Spoiler: Off Topic

Time lapse of a GT3 car build. Z4 body (minus exterior panels), reinforced per the regulations. Not much of what's added to the car thereafter comes from the road car, and you can see how basic it is. That's why GT3 cars will be 1300kg irrespective of the road car weight.

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Just food for thought.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I wouldn't get your hopes up!

edit: As an aside...

Spoiler: Off Topic

Time lapse of a GT3 car build. Z4 body (minus exterior panels), reinforced per the regulations. Not much of what's added to the car thereafter comes from the road car, and you can see how basic it is. That's why GT3 cars will be 1300kg irrespective of the road car weight.

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Just food for thought.

Haha, we'll see I guess. But that being the case, why is the C192 so heavy in street form compared to the C190. Obviously 4matic, extra seats and maybe the weight of being a slightly bigger car. But it weighs the same as the CLE which is bigger still. Surely there must be something they can shed.

I dunno.

 

[Swissbob]

Haha, we'll see I guess. But that being the case, why is the C192 so heavy in street form compared to the C190. Obviously 4matic, extra seats and maybe the weight of being a slightly bigger car. But it weighs the same as the CLE which is bigger still. Surely there must be something they can shed.

I dunno.

Almost no aluminum that’s why.