Comparison tests 2014 BMW M3/M4 vs Rivals

[Zafiro]

Two things.

I posted whilst you were writing your post. Your obvious attempt at a joke based on my propensity to chastise other members for "reposts" really isn't relevant. There's a difference between two people posting the same thing at the same time compared with someone not bothering to check whether something has been posted before.

I chose to leave my post as it was because you didn't embed the video in your post. My post makes it easier for other members to view the video.

So, what should really have been a non-issue has been turned into one because of your rubbish attempt at humour.

Stop editing your post. I have changed my reply two times already. Now I just give up!

 

[ACE]

Oh come on Klier. I don't wish to get into an argument here

 

[Rolf]

I just love the way Steve Sutcliff compares cars!!! So it was a close call but he chose the C63 by a fraction cause of its engine, steering and character!! AMG knows how to produce great turbo engines, the 5.5 V8 is a case example in the E63 AMG and I am sure they will produce another fantastic one in the new 4.0 V8 as it is also due to go into the GT AMG as well!!

 

[mini_cooper4]

I just love the way Steve Sutcliff compares cars!!! So it was a close call but he chose the C63 by a fraction cause of its engine, steering and character!! AMG knows how to produce great turbo engines, the 5.5 V8 is a case example in the E63 AMG and I am sure they will produce another fantastic one in the new 4.0 V8 as it is also due to go into the GT AMG as well!!

I don't like the old fart so much but I like this comparo and will most definitely agree with him after I drive the new M4.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Believe me, I genuinely don't!!

It's just that Klier was happy to compare the M235i (turbo I6) with the Cayman (NA F6) when it suited him, and yet now it's "apples and oranges" comparing the C 63 AMG with the M4!

The C63 AMG is just about the most appropriate competitor against the M4 there is!! The fact that it happens to still have a NA V8 is by-the-by. If I'm in the market for a powerful front-engined, RWD coupe from BMW or MB, then I would look at these two.

 

[klier]

^

Oh come on Klier. I don't wish to get into an argument here but are you actually claiming the C 63 AMG Coupe is not an appropriate comparison to the M4 because the BMW now has an I6 turbo?

No, I meant he should stop moaning about the downsides of a turbo, we get that. We got that 10 years ago when things really started changing. A change that was inevitable and not chosen by any of the car companies that made NA engines.
The C63 is nice, but it's a dinosaur in every way, including it's lovely engine.

The apple was an NA engine and the orange a turbo engine.

Believe me, I genuinely don't!!

It's just that Klier was happy to compare the M235i (turbo I6) with the Cayman (NA F6) when it suited him, and yet now it's "apples and oranges" comparing the C 63 AMG with the M4!

Again apples to oranges. The Cayman vs 2er was something completely else, and the engine had nothing to do with that. Not once was it mentioned in the discussion.
If proves I don't care about turbo vs non turbo, so it's good you brought that up again

 

[Betty Swollocks]

^



No, I meant he should stop moaning about the downsides of a turbo, we get that. We got that 10 years ago when things really started changing. A change that was inevitable and not chosen by any of the car companies that made NA engines.
The C63 is nice, but it's a dinosaur in every way, including it's lovely engine.

The apple was an NA engine and the orange a turbo engine.

And the Cayman with a NA and a M235i with a turbo isn't?

 

[Rolf]

Believe me, I genuinely don't!!

It's just that Klier was happy to compare the M235i (turbo I6) with the Cayman (NA F6) when it suited him, and yet now it's "apples and oranges" comparing the C 63 AMG with the M4!

The C63 AMG is just about the most appropriate competitor against the M4 there is!! The fact that it happens to still have a NA V8 is by-the-by. If I'm in the market for a powerful front-engined, RWD coupe from BMW or MB, then I would look at these two.

Yep these 2 are natural rivals and then also the RS5 can be included. Some people will start to compare the new Cayman GTS as well, but for me that's like comparing cheese and apples!

 

[Rolf]

^



No, I meant he should stop moaning about the downsides of a turbo, we get that. We got that 10 years ago when things really started changing. A change that was inevitable and not chosen by any of the car companies that made NA engines.
The C63 is nice, but it's a dinosaur in every way, including it's lovely engine.

The apple was an NA engine and the orange a turbo engine.

Maybe one of these days they will decide to change back to NA and then fit electric motors and follow the route of the LaFerrari and 918!! Then we comparing apples with oranges and back to apples again!! LOL

 

[klier]

@Betty Swollocks I edited my previous post, hope it becomes clear to you my dear friend!

Yep these 2 are natural rivals

Apples and oranges are too

 

[martinbo]

Wowwee - and all moved into Internal Combustion not a moment too soon.

 

[klier]

LOL, that must have saved a lot of work huh Martin

So what is your take on Steve comparing the turbo engine to the NA engines of the old M3 and soon to be old C63?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

@Betty Swollocks I edited my previous post, hope it becomes clear to you my dear friend!



Apples and oranges are too

I see the point and nuance of what you're saying. I do. You weren't considering the engines in the M235i v Cayman.



With regards to the C 63 AMG v M4 though. Sutters' job is to compare the new car (M4) with what else is on sale and it's direct rival, the C 63. Right now a potential customer has the choice of an I6 twin-turbo or a V8 NA. That's a simple fact. Sutters isn't thinking "I better not upset BMW fans".

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Wowwee - and all moved into Internal Combustion not a moment too soon.

I guess being a mod all these years gives you a sixth sense for when it's about to switch to DEFCON 1.

 

[klier]

I see the point and nuance of what you're saying. I do. You weren't considering the engines in the M235i v Cayman.

Well to be fair I most certainly was! But not the engine type. Another nuance. Layers over layers.

I don't like the old fart so much but I like this comparo and will most definitely agree with him after I drive the new M4.

I don't like it at all. He simply took a C63 to his first ever M4 short drive in BMW controlled enviroment.
Not the proper way. Real tests have yet to come.

 

[martinbo]

LOL, that must have saved a lot of work huh Martin

Don't you know it!

So what is your take on Steve comparing the turbo engine to the NA engines of the old M3 and soon to be old C63?

I think it's an essential and relevant comparison given the cusp of the technology shift that we find ourselves in. Here's your opportunity to evaluate the "new direction" of BMW M (the erstwhile greatest purveyors of NA engine zing this side of Ferrari) vs what is very much the last gasp for the olde school way of doing things. If you absolutely can't bring yourself to love the new M4 - then here's your last chance to grab a slice of NA heaven.

Funny thing though, for me judging the sounds of the engines from the inside through earphones and I have to say that the M4 doesn't sound all that bad.

In the end though, as brilliant as the S55 will be appreciated for being as a turbocharged engine, there's no way that a two-blower can match the throttle response and zest of a short-stroke, over-square mill with 8 throttle bodies. The latter - that cool shit there is gone forever. And it is sad.

 

[Zafiro]

Let's compare Steve M4 review with his first drive in M3 E92

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[ACE]

I wonder if Sutcliffe would come to the same conclusion comparing the current C63 to the new (smaller turbo engined) C63?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Watching that E92 M3 review.....

"Weighs about the same as the old M3"

No. 1,655kg is NOT "about the same" as 1,570kg.

And he quotes BMW insiders as saying there will be a more hardcore version CSL very soon after. There wasn't. There was the GTS but that wasn't very soon after and it was extremely rare.

 

[martinbo]

And he quotes BMW insiders as saying there will be a more hardcore version CSL very soon after. There wasn't. There was the GTS but that wasn't very soon after and it was extremely rare.

Why that lying, fat bastard!