Supra [Official] Toyota Supra (J29/DB)

[martinbo]

works pretty good in the Ford GT.

I see nothing remarkable in it. It's in there as a fit-for-purpose unit; I've not read a single review where the tester says the engine is anything remarkable.
I don't like V6s one bit. They're recalcitrant in their response and reluctant revvers. All the V6s I've driven feel like they're fighting a battle with their internals.

 

[Centurion]

There's no case for wanting to see a V6 in anything.

How come?

 

[martinbo]

How come?

Look, there's quite a bit of hyperbole in that statement. V6s are great from a packaging perspective and the sensible choice when it comes to front-engined AWD cars like Audis where their benefits in terms of weight distribution are clear in such front-heavy applications. Porsche's Panamera and Cayenne models couldn't do without a V6 either. Also, I hear that the V6 in the top-end Giulia and Stelvio is marvelous.

Personally, I really don't care much for V6s. Never have never will. Most respond like they're lubricated in treacle, have no natural desire to chase the red line and sound barely more inspiring than a 4 pot.
But that's just me. Gimme an inline or flat six any day. Mmmm... creamy smooth, inherently responsive and always willing to rev hard. Sometimes too willing! [Addictively so]

 

[Matski]

My friend had a V6 Vectra as a pool car once. The thing had done about 100,000 miles in 12 months and was already wrecked. As I recall from a visit to the Cinema in it that evening, it was the fastest car on the planet, clearly capable of out performing contemporary Formula 1 cars... hence it was no surprise when the raw performance overcame the grip available from it's meager road car tyres, and it ended up on the wrong side of a roadside hedge later that evening. Miraculously, it was only the scratches on the roof that gave it away when it was returned the following day.

As far as I recall that's the only time I've even been in a V6 car (though I did have a somewhat similar experience in a VR6 powered Corrado, which was clearly in contention for a World Rally Championship title almost every time I happened to be a passenger).

I have to say, I have the impression that V configured 6 cylinder engines are the powerplant of the hooligan, or at least, were in the 1990's.

 

[martinbo]

As a youngster I'd never been exposed to inline or flat sixes. Wrong side of the tracks y'see... So the V6 I grew up knowing was the venerable Essex V6. It made a sound similar to "vulululululululululu"...

Later, on I had acquaintance with two friends' VR6s. That was a great sounding engine. Some motoring scribe once used the word mellifluous to describe an engine's sound and this might've been it.

Then, at last, I got a drive in a 325iS and the rest is sweet six history...

 

[Centurion]

Personally, I really don't care much for V6s. Never have never will. Most respond like they're lubricated in treacle, have no natural desire to chase the red line and sound barely more inspiring than a 4 pot.
But that's just me. Gimme an inline or flat six any day. Mmmm... creamy smooth, inherently responsive and always willing to rev hard. Sometimes too willing! [Addictively so]

I'm surprised you have said this. A friend of mine has an Exige with a supercharged V6 Toyota engine and it sounds AMAZING and revs happily too. It's much more visceral engine than the all-round competent B58 in the Supra.

 

[LaVitaEBella]

I am seeing a lot of Tonic Silver car colors lately.

 

[mihc]

I have seen today this red Supra. It looks really good in person, especially in this color.

 

[Centurion]

MY2021 Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium

Changes:
B58 with 382hp(same as Z4 M40i) up from 335hp.
0-60 in 3.9sec instead of 4.1
Struct brace across strut towers
Revised suspension, power steering and traction control
Apple CarPlay is standard
8.8inch screen is standard
Deliveries start in June

A91 Edition
Limited to 1,000 units
Alcantara panels on the seats with clue sticking
Carbon fiber mirror caps and lip spoiler
Black stripe on C-pillar and rear fender.
Black alloys

 

[Centurion]

This is going to be a PR disaster for Toyota and an example of how not to screw early adopters and loyal fans.

Customer deliveries of the Supra only begun in late summer last year. discounts have been non existent and some even paid a markup.

Yet, less than a year after Toyota have now unveiled a significant chassis and drivetrain update that you would expect as part of a facelift and not as the 2nd MY.

It’s pretty shocking product lifecycle management and I think numerous Supra wines will be raging once they have read about the MY2021 Supra.

 

[KiwiRob]

This is going to be a PR disaster for Toyota and an example of how not to screw early adopters...

Others have done worse, for example Ferrari were only going to build 400 F40's they ended up building 1311.

 

[hovabongZA]

You watch a video like this and you sort of understand why BMW are the most decorated engine builders in the history of the automotive world.

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[mihc]

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[Centurion]

Reviews out the 2021 model year are out. Unsurprisingly the revised B58 and improved chassis makes it an improvement on the already great 2020 model year.

Changes to the chassis are the following:

• Aluminum bracing in the engine bay
• New bump stops
• Retuned dampers
• Retuned active differential

Would I buy a Supra? No. Not now when the 718 GTS has a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder engine. Who would have thought that a Toyota would make a Porsche look like good value?

In the UK the asking price for the Supra is £54k. Toyota offers NO discount or deposit contribution. The 718 GTS is £65k but is not expensive to option. No-cost paints are ok, Sports Chrono is standard, black alloys are free and PASM is a no-cost option.

Although the Supra is eager to change direction and is fast, the 718 GTS is a quintessential sportscar. The only reason to choose the Toyota over the Porsche is if you like to tune the car or personalise it with aftermarket parts.

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[mihc]

Is power bump to 387HP for 2021 Supra model only for US, or will also European version get this power upgrade?

 

[martinbo]

I think it's fair to say that both Supra and 718 GTS 4.0 are among the best bang-for-buck sports cars around. What's nice is that they offer different takes on the enthusiast's driving experience so both have a specific element of appeal. I'd take the Porker but with our currency doing a Covid swan dive, the GTS 4.0 will now be firmly out of my spend frame of mind. Maybe in 2 - 3 years' time.

 

[Centurion]

Is power bump to 387HP for 2021 Supra model only for US, or...

If I remember correctly, no B58 powered car in Europe has the same power output as EQ variants.

I think it's fair to say that both Supra and 718 GTS 4.0 a...

The Supra is highly commendable and has fluidity and balance that is unmatched by many cars priced below or above it. I reckon it has the best suspension and steering of any BMW that's currently on the market.

I expect the Supra to be a very iterative model with years updates and upgrades. This is especially true as it's highly reliant on BMW'S supply chain. The 2022 model year will likely have a larger screen, iDrive 7 and Android auto.

Comparing it to the 718 GTS is like comparing food that's been BBQ on an electric grille, it will be very yummy but the food BBQed on the goal grille taste more quintessential.

I too have my eyes on the 718 GTS as a sportscar. Not new but used in 2-3 years at 20-30% less than new. It also fits in my garage which some other sports cars wouldn't unless I have a thorough clear out.

 

[martinbo]

I reckon it has the best suspension and steering of any BMW that's currently on the market.

Better than an M2 Competition? Not likely. Certainly the handling circuit numbers don't bear this out. Seems to me that the Supra's suspension tuning has been geared toward playfulness rather than outright accuracy.

It also fits in my garage which some other sports cars wouldn't unless I have a thorough clear out.

You'll have to do a thorough clean out. Main issue is the width you'll need. The doors are long and need to be pushed out to their midpoint opening to make ingress and egress doable without contortion.
I suggest taping a wall with foam safety tape to lean the door against and avoid taking the paint off the edges.

 

[Centurion]

Better than an M2 Competition? Not likely. Certainly the h...

Would solid bushes and sub frame inserts make the Supra steering feel a bit crisper?

Although not confirmed I think we will at some point see a more raw Supra powered by the S55 or S58.

Good call about the long doors or the 718 and coupe in general for that matter. The Porsche is roughly 10cm wider than my M140i which is garaged. Exit and entry would have few margins for error and I might have to widen the garage opening. Inside there is room for a wider car and I would off course put some padding on the breeze block to minimise the risk of a scuffed door.

 

[martinbo]

Would solid bushes and sub frame inserts make the Supra steering feel a bit crisper?

More than likely but will it change its fundamental dynamic demeanour? I doubt it as there must be specific springing and damping rates + suspension geometry engineered to make the Supra more playful and less overtly precise.