Concept [Official] BMW Vision Next 100

[Giannis]

Believing in equality is a religion.

I don't believe in equality as you put it.

What I believe in, is something a (political) refugee said some 160 years ago. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

I think that we won't agree and discussing this subject will drag this thread into further political discussion, something that we don't allow in GCF - for good. In any case, I do enjoy reading your arguments.

 

[martinbo]

Erm ok... Can I just say that I frikken love driving!

Right car, right road, it is amongst my very favourite things to do. It's why I wanted a BMW for so long and then bought one (and then another).

I just wish BMW would celebrate 100 Years of Sheer Driving Pleasure. For us. The people that helped get them there.

Screw the millennials - it's Daddy's money anyway.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I don't believe in equality as you put it.

What I believe in, is something a (political) refugee said some 160 years ago. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

I think that we won't agree and discussing this subject will drag this thread into further political discussion, something that we don't allow in GCF - for good. In any case, I do enjoy reading your arguments.

It's quite interesting how we can stand miles apart in political perspective, but are joined by our love and joy for cars and driving. I'd love to have a political discussion with you sometime @Giannis But you're right, not here in GCF

 

[SCOTT27]

@ ENI, SDNR,Giannis et all.
Have you ever seen "Idiocracy"?
Its more or less a film for our time and according to the creators has become more of a documentary as it shows the decline of American intelligence. Amongst other things "Reality Television" such as Keeping up with the Kardashians etc is the equivalent to Idiocracy's " ow my balls! "

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[Mick Briesgau]

^ What,s my dog doing in that video?!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

With regards to autonomous driving, as soon as governments realise how much revenue they will lose from the cash cow that is speeding fines, they will put a stop to the future.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

With regards to autonomous driving, as soon as governments realise how much revenue they will lose from the cash cow that is speeding fines, they will put a stop to the future.

This has actually been part of the discussion by some lower government bureaucrats in the Netherlands.

 

[EnI]

With regards to autonomous driving, as soon as governments realise how much revenue they will lose from the cash cow that is speeding fines, they will put a stop to the future.

Don't worry ... they will start to focus on motorists, cyclists & pedestrians more. IMHO that will be a good thing since today many of them are a bit to reckless when it comes to their action in the traffic situations ... and in most cases not fined at all.

Smartcars will be able to take a photo & video of them, and report them to the authorities. LOL And also alert the other vehicle to be aware of a dangerous cyclist, motorist, pedestrian etc in the certain area.

Smartcars will definitely affect the role of other participants in traffic too. In a good way.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Don't worry ... they will start to focus on motorists, cyclists & pedestrians more. IMHO that will be a good thing since today many of them are a bit to reckless when it comes to their action in the traffic situations ... and in most cases not fined at all.

And that will pale into insignificance compared with how much revenue is currently generated by speeding fines. All that will be gone if your vision of the future is realised, and it's a very simplistic view of the future which I don't share.

 

[EnI]

Sure speeding & parking fines could be an important income for some local budgets ... And will have to find incomes / revenues elsewhere. Mind all the smartcars will be connected to the internet & will communicate with smart traffic signs & lights etc - perhaps counties, communities, cities etc will get some share from the internet provider subscription, or some sort of vehicle registration tax will be increased - as a compensation for investment in the smart traffic infrastructure.

Don't worry about that. Politicians are sneaky. They know ways how to sneak money from people's wallets.

 

[Matski]

And that will pale into insignificance compared with how much revenue is currently generated by speeding fines. All that will be gone if your vision of the future is realised, and it's a very simplistic view of the future which I don't share.

I don't agree with your point about speeding fines, at least not in the UK anyway.

I don't have many numbers to go by, but it appears that in the UK the goverment raises anywhere between £45 to £132 Million from speeding fines (depending on which newspaper you read)

According to gov.uk website, the government estimate the cost to them of road traffic accident prevention at around £15 Billion.

If autonomous vehicles prove to be safe, it could save the government a lot of money in the reduction of accidents, not to mention reducing the burden on our underfunded and overstretched emergency services.

 

[EnI]

@Matski

Definitely.

Safer traffic does definitely save more money than missed traffic fines would cost the budget.

Fines are there to enforce more safety - since accidents are very costly (directly & indirectly); so with fines a bit of the income (spent for accident costs) is returned to the budget.

So the net profit of the less fines + less accidents would be quite high. So missed fines will be compensated with less costs spend for the consequences of traffic accidents.

When it comes to economy & economics ... the automated traffic generates a very positive effect on (macro)economy. Fiscal situation is better with automated traffic than without it. In general. Desipet less fines will be collected, some jobs will be gone (eg. drivers, wallets, police forces, etc) ... but some other will be created (in IT, in traffic management services etc) & fines will be replaced with some other taxes or duties if needed.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Fines are there to enforce more safety

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I don't agree with your point about speeding fines, at least not in the UK anyway.

I don't have many numbers to go by, but it appears that in the UK the goverment raises anywhere between £45 to £132 Million from speeding fines (depending on which newspaper you read)

According to gov.uk website, the government estimate the cost to them of road traffic accident prevention at around £15 Billion.

If autonomous vehicles prove to be safe, it could save the government a lot of money in the reduction of accidents, not to mention reducing the burden on our underfunded and overstretched emergency services.

Interesting points. I can't really dispute the figures as I have no evidence myself, but the revenue you quote seems awfully low, and the cost seems awfully high.

As a point of reference, the top ten speed cameras in the UK made £12 million alone in three years, according to this article.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/42...ameras-raked-in-12million-in-just-three-years

 

[Matski]

Interesting points. I can't really dispute the figures as I have no evidence myself, but the revenue you quote seems awfully low, and the cost seems awfully high.

As a point of reference, the top ten speed cameras in the UK made £12 million alone in three years, according to this article.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/42...ameras-raked-in-12million-in-just-three-years

I agree the cost the government are quoting seems high, but the revenue seems realistic.. this excerpt from another newspaper:

"Over the past four years, a total of 452,540 speeding fines have been issued by magistrates, netting the Treasury more than £45million worth of fines."

I'm not saying that's gospel, but given the link you provided demonstrates that the most profitable cameras are situated in very densely populated, heavy traffic areas, it doesn't seem much of a stretch for a £45,000,000 total figure to be realistic.

For all the complaining our motorists do here about speed cameras, our network of fixed camera are blissfully under utilised - they may be present, but often they are not switched on, acting simply as a deterrent. I would guess that most people are caught by mobile speed camera units, of which there are far, far fewer. I've been pinged for speeding 5 times in 19 years of driving, and that's more than any of my friends, family or colleagues, and 4 of those 5 were from mobile cameras.

I had typed out a long rant about the number of speed cameras I pass I drive to Brands Hatch (or indeed the Eurotunnel terminal), but it was getting pretty off-topic, the tl;dr version is I'm sure we all have journeys that we hate making, wouldn't we rather have the option of letting a computer take the strain?*

*earlier today I went for an hours drive on some local backroads just for fun by the way.

 

[Giannis]

I'm sure we all have journeys that we hate making

Yes, but it's the car that matters too, which is something I back with personal experience.

You see, I have an old Clio (the second most playful french thing on four wheels after the 106 Rallye) and a beige Volvo. If I have to run around downtown in the morning traffic with the Volvo, I feel awful. Yet, take the Clio and it feels like being a part of the Italian Job. And vice versa, gotta take a long trip, all in the highway? It's a nightmare with the Clio, and a relaxing break with the Volvo.

It's the right tool for the right job.

And then there are those people who find absolutely no joy in driving. And there are a lot!

 

[Matski]

Yes, but it's the car that matters too, which is something I back with personal experience.

You see, I have an old Clio (the second most playful french thing on four wheels after the 106 Rallye) and a beige Volvo. If I have to run around downtown in the morning traffic with the Volvo, I feel awful. Yet, take the Clio and it feels like being a part of the Italian Job. And vice versa, gotta take a long trip, all in the highway? It's a nightmare with the Clio, and a relaxing break with the Volvo.

It's the right tool for the right job.

And then there are those people who find absolutely no joy in driving. And there are a lot!

I don't find that much joy in 200 mile slogs in a pretty much straight line. Granted the car you are in does make a difference, I once did a 280 mile journey with 4 other people in a Toyota Paseo... that wasn't fun... I also drove to the bottom of the UK, to the top, and back home again in a 106 1.4D, that wasn't fun... I then did it years later in a 320d Tourer, it was more comfortable, but fun it was not. I once drove 4500 miles around the entire coastline of the UK in a Vauxhall Astra, that wasn't a great car but it was lots of fun. Sometimes the journey is about the destination, sometimes it's just about the journey. I sure wouldn't want to loose the fun of driving a BMW, but I will admit on long hauls, it still gets a little boring, at least for me anyway.

 

[SCOTT27]

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[Deleted member 25]

Funny you felt the need the cards.

 

[Rainer271]