Taycan [Official] Porsche Taycan

[AndreB]

Yup. After 2 Taycans I was happily back in an ICE M4.

Your also drive an S Class which is all about low engine noise, like a Taycan.
Not denying, my GT is fun for short drives but I couldn't drive it daily too stiff and noisy, if I had to live with one car it would be the Taycan. What about you M4 or S?

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Your also drive an S Class which is all about low engine noise, like a Taycan.
Not denying, my GT is fun for short drives but I couldn't drive it daily too stiff and noisy, if I had to live with one car it would be the Taycan. What about you M4 or S?

I'm so happy with my 911 as a daily. I drive maybe 30km a day on average. But a Turbo would probably be a better bet for me than the GTS to be honest.

The Taycans were pretty faultless vehicles. The GTS coupe felt like it wanted to be driven. But when you did push it, the lack of real auidble feedback was boring. The speed and response were sensational, but it left me cold. It just felt like an appliance IMO.

With respect to the S, what a fantastic car. I grab the keys to the S on the weekend, mostly when I'm taking the kids somewhere or out at dinner with some friends or just want a relaxed drive with some great music on. An S would benefit from an EV drivetrain, but the engine and gearbox are so well sorted, on the move it's easily as refined as an EV.

An EV S, with no compromises in terms of design and interior seating would be sublime. And I also mean, it can't be as big as the gargantuan 7 because that's just ridiculous for normal private use.

 

[Fastpaddy]

For dyed-in-the-wool "PETROLheads" that enjoy the aural reward offered in ICE vehicles and take their cars to closed circuits regularly, I can appreciate the BEVs may be "boring". But for others, they are not. Instant torque and refinement are characteristics of BEVs that can fascinate many. A more recent "wheel time" encounter with a SMART #1 BRABUS left me very, very impressed. I was also left fascinated by a KIA EV6 "loaner" that I had for one day. And even an older electric SMART Fortwo, which I also had for a day as a "loaner", put a smile on my face. But hey, that is just me. But imagine that I am not alone.

Own it and the novelty soon wears off. Just the way the cookie crumbles when it comes to straight line performance. You get used to it and then its never enough and the brain wants more.

Hence why its boring, hence why rimac cannot even sell out his tiny limited allocation, hence why rimac told bugatti a EV bugatti wont sell

 

[Big Sam]

I've just driven from Holland to Corfu, Greece, by way of Belgium, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, and San Marino. I was in my C-Class (W206), but I wished I was in my Taycan GTS ST. Only reason I wasn't is because some of Corfu's roads are not really suitable for a 5m x 2m vehicle. But absolutely, the journey TO Corfu would have been no issue judging by the frequent ultra-rapid chargers available along the whole route.

My car is 14 months old now, and if I wanted to trade it in for the facelift Taycan, I would have to take a big hit due to the depreciation. I got a trade-in figure of around 60% of its new value after one year...yet the car is SO good that the only thing stopping me from buying a new one is that the facelift GTS hasn't been launched yet.

 

[KiwiRob]

New model sells drastically less than outgoing long in the tooth model.

Yeah that’s a sales failure

People dont want EV’s

which people are those that don't want them? I'll never buy a new ICE vehicle again, EV's are simply better for what I use them for.

 

[Fastpaddy]

which people are those that don't want them? I'll never buy a new ICE vehicle again, EV's are simply better for what I use them for.

Car rental companies for a start, because customers dont want to rehire EV’s after a initial hire.

Also 50% of current EV owners plan on going back to ICE.

EV sales also fallen off a cliff since tax incentives have been rolled back.

Im glad EV’s work for you, i wish they could make a EV van with decent range, as then id update the company fleet to EV’s.

Vans just need to get my engineers and our tools from A to B as cheaply as possible

 

[Matski]

which people are those that don't want them?

Currently, the majority of car buyers.

 

[KiwiRob]

Currently, the majority of car buyers.

The EU needs to lead by example and stop the sale of ICE vehicles sooner rather than later, if the good citizens of the EU don’t like it though. Next step is to remove all the ICE vehicles from the road.

 

[KiwiRob]

Car rental companies for a start, because customers dont want to rehire EV’s after a initial hire.

Also 50% of current EV owners plan on going back to ICE.

EV sales also fallen off a cliff since tax incentives have been rolled back.

Im glad EV’s work for you, i wish they could make a EV van with decent range, as then id update the company fleet to EV’s.

Vans just need to get my engineers and our tools from A to B as cheaply as possible

Paddy I really don’t care how fast you engineers need to get from A to B, they can do it in Norway with EV’s they can do it in the UK and most of the rest of Europe as well.

 

[Matski]

The EU needs to lead by example and stop the sale of ICE vehicles sooner rather than later, if the good citizens of the EU don’t like it though. Next step is to remove all the ICE vehicles from the road.

Why?

 

[AndreB]

Car rental companies for a start, because customers dont want to rehire EV’s after a initial hire.

Also 50% of current EV owners plan on going back to ICE.

EV sales also fallen off a cliff since tax incentives have been rolled back.

People rent nice EVs cheaper than other ICE cars but don't know how charging works, I've met few at charging stations.
An ICE car is easier to live with, just fill in 3 minutes, but the planet is boiling in some parts and becomes unlivable.

Those getting back to ICE probably bought the wrong car for their use case.

The new Taycan can replace both cars since it can drive 400km without stopping.

With solar panels your vans can drive for free.

The EU needs to lead by example and stop the sale of ICE vehicles sooner rather than later, if the good citizens of the EU don’t like it though. Next step is to remove all the ICE vehicles from the road.

ICE cars will be on the roads for very long and its not a problem, but their bad in the city, too much pollution.

 

[KiwiRob]

Why?

Europe can survive without oil and gas for transportation. We can do it so we should do it. Cutting Europes reliance on oil makes Europe more independent, IMO that’s a good thing.

 

[Matski]

Europe can survive without oil and gas for transportation. We can do it so we should do it. Cutting Europes reliance on oil makes Europe more independent, IMO that’s a good thing.

You can do it, and you can do it comfortably. It's not the same for everybody. I honestly can't believe that such a myopic viewpoint comes from a good faith position.

If EVs are better, it doesn't need the EU to do anything. To use the popular analogies of the Pro-EV crowd, film cameras didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to digital, dumb phones didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to smart phones, and physical media didn't have to be legislated out in order for digital media and streaming services to dominate. If EVs are good enough, for enough people, then they will switch without government intervention, and if they aren't, then people shouldn't be made to. Personal mobility is a foundational pile in modern society, you cannot take it away without serious negative effects.

 

[AndreB]

If EVs are better, it doesn't need the EU to do anything. To use the popular analogies of the Pro-EV crowd, film cameras didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to digital, dumb phones didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to smart phones, and physical media didn't have to be legislated out in order for digital media and streaming services to dominate. If EVs are good enough, for enough people, then they will switch without government intervention, and if they aren't, then people shouldn't be made to.

IMO the parallel between dumb phones and smartphones is not the same as ICE vs EV because dumb phones do not cause pollution, global warming or are funding shady governments around the world.

Western Europe don't have pollution issues because their cars are new, but eastern Europe has really bad pollution, during winter there's smog in the air from old cars, so not a nice place to live. In the summer they heat up the city streets to 50 degrees.

EVs will replace ICE cars in the near future, if European manufacturers keep investing money in a dying technology I have no doubt we will drive Chinese cars, like we use their solar panels, smartphones, etc and 100 years from now we'll probably speak chinese.

 

[Matski]

IMO the parallel between dumb phones and smartphones is not the same as ICE vs EV because dumb phones do not cause pollution, global warming or are funding shady governments around the world.

I don't think any of them are valid parallels because they were a fundamental change in the way we do things, whereas EVs are not - but they seem to be examples used rabidly by those seeking to prophesize the impending doom of legacy car manufacturers, hence I felt it was appropriate to mention them.

Western Europe don't have pollution issues because their cars are new, but eastern Europe has really bad pollution, during winter there's smog in the air from old cars, so not a nice place to live.

Do you think telling all car owners in Western Europe that they must switch to an EV or go without a car or work vehicle is a net gain, accepting that improved air quality is a benefit? Do you support restrictions on car use entirely if there's a demonstrable benefit to local communities?

 

[Fastpaddy]

Paddy I really don’t care how fast you engineers need to get from A to B, they can do it in Norway with EV’s they can do it in the UK and most of the rest of Europe as well.

No one mentioned speed when it came to EV vans.

And when a EV van cant even do 100 miles they are no good to us as a business.

We need vehicles that can do 600 miles without charging for our most versatile engineers.

And probably would get away with 300 miles for the typical day to day guys.

However all those poor souls who did change to EV vans all complained of 60-80 mile real world range and got rid after a few months

 

[Fastpaddy]

IMO the parallel between dumb phones and smartphones is not the same as ICE vs EV because dumb phones do not cause pollution, global warming or are funding shady governments around the world.

Western Europe don't have pollution issues because their cars are new, but eastern Europe has really bad pollution, during winter there's smog in the air from old cars, so not a nice place to live. In the summer they heat up the city streets to 50 degrees.

EVs will replace ICE cars in the near future, if European manufacturers keep investing money in a dying technology I have no doubt we will drive Chinese cars, like we use their solar panels, smartphones, etc and 100 years from now we'll probably speak chinese.

We dont fit chinese solar panels, or chinese heat pumps, because its a false economy. They dont last as long as european ones, and getting spare parts is always a issue.

And if eastern european cannot even remove old polluting cars off their road due to socio economic reasons, what chance do you think there will be for even more expensive EV’s to replace them lol.

And yes the world is heating up.

But only 10% of that comes from vehicles.

That figure could drop to 3% if we banned SUV’s and everyone drove euro 6 petrol vehicles in the world.

So do you think that getting rid of every petrol vehicle will change the trajectory of humans destroying the planet? Nope.

 

[KiwiRob]

You can do it, and you can do it comfortably. It's not the same for everybody. I honestly can't believe that such a myopic viewpoint comes from a good faith position.

If EVs are better, it doesn't need the EU to do anything. To use the popular analogies of the Pro-EV crowd, film cameras didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to digital, dumb phones didn't have to be legislated out for the market to switch to smart phones, and physical media didn't have to be legislated out in order for digital media and streaming services to dominate. If EVs are good enough, for enough people, then they will switch without government intervention, and if they aren't, then people shouldn't be made to. Personal mobility is a foundational pile in modern society, you cannot take it away without serious negative effects.

You’re being disingenuous comparing cellphones and digital cameras to motor vehicles. They’re not even remotely the same, it’s laughable that you think that it’s comparable.

Personal mobility is not a fundamental right, owning a motor vehicle is a privilege which comes with many responsibilities. In the UK the number of people applying to get a drivers license has been reducing every year since 2005, the UK is not alone in this.

 

[KiwiRob]

No one mentioned speed when it came to EV vans.

And when a EV van cant even do 100 miles they are no good to us as a business.

We need vehicles that can do 600 miles without charging for our most versatile engineers.

And probably would get away with 300 miles for the typical day to day guys.

However all those poor souls who did change to EV vans all complained of 60-80 mile real world range and got rid after a few months

How many of your engineers are going to be driving 600 miles in a day? I call BS on this! In the UK that’s at least 6-7 hours on the road, the working day is only 8 hours, they can’t be all that productive with sick long distances to travel.

 

[Fastpaddy]

How many of your engineers are going to be driving 600 miles in a day? I call BS on this! In the UK that’s at least 6-7 hours on the road, the working day is only 8 hours, they can’t be all that productive with sick long distances to travel.

We are a specialist engineering company.

We do work for specialist healthcare facilities that directiy save lives.

I can get a call right now that they need someone up in liverpool, or Wales, or newcastle. Thats 5 hours one way.

The engineer could be on site for 30 minutes, or 12+ hours and be put up in a random hotel closest to the job.

The last thing my guys will want to do is have to look for somewhere to charge.

They want to get the job done and get back down home to their families.

Some guys will stop off for lunch, some guys have been known not to stop at all.

Either case the 600+ mile range of the transporter vans is hugely welcomed.

And this is the reality of the world, not the goody two shoes omg you can only work 8 hours a day soft belly modern man thought process.