X5 M / X6 M [Official] BMW X6 M Thread

[Zafiro]

Hi-rev NA engines are passé.

thats what BMW wants us to believe...

 

[LaArtist]

The problem is not the engine..its probably a gem..and like someone said a low torque high rev engine ala M3 is retarded in heavy trucks like these..

The problem is the car itself.. and the decision to give it the M treatment..

belive me this is the first of many NON-M things you will see with this car..
and it really isnt M´s fault..as the platform is not suited for M philosophy ( or what was known as M philosophy)

 

[EnI]

thats what BMW wants us to believe...

Not at all.
The whole industry is going turbo.
Perhaps only some exotic brands will stick with NA engines.

It's a common trend - not something BMW have made up.

The issue BMW have is they have an image of brand which stick with NA engines when others had gone turbo ... While this time BMW have no choice. It's not a matter of choice. It's a new paradigm. Turbo tech is prevailing, NA engines are going to be history soon.

M is going turbo ... M SAV / SAC is a perfect introduction vehicle for such an engine - due to dimensions & weight - since an NA engine in such a car would have to have a huge displacement to generate all the needed torque.

Expect also other M cars to go turbo as well. M5 & M6 will be next.

Also the next M3 is going turbo. It may even go V6 instead of I6 - due to packaging & point of gravity matters. Copying V8 TT tech also on V6 configuration (inverse manifold, turbos between blocks, twin scrolls in cat converter, special manifold management etc).

BMW are already testing both solutions for the next 6-cylinder TT: and they will go with configuration that will be best base for future 6-cyl M engine. If V6 proves to be better solution then expect V6 TT in the next BMW cars. Incl. M3.

Developing a complex M version of TT I6 could be a very expensive thing ... And due to current limited R&D resources due to crisis I expect BMW to go V6 - since it's cheaper make especially in TT variant, and V8 TT know-how can be successfully implemented - incl. in M variant.

But be sure BMW engineers will come with a solution that will resemble notorious I6 NA characteristics ... "Mness" won't be compromised.

Forget the E30 M3 ... We live in different times now.

Even an analog gramophone can still produce better sound than most profound digital sound device - yet times of analog sound devices are no longer in mainstream use.

Yes, there will be some M-bashing due "not being a true M anymore" - since different tech will be used.

But as IO said many times: M or BMW are not about certain tech, but about certain characteristic. If such characteristic can be delivered by different (contemporary) tech, than there's no harm done. Except some nostalgic feeling is lost. Nothing else.

Otherwise eg. Chanel would always be a short black dress only, and a Nr.5 perfume.

 

[Cashmere]

The problem is not the engine..its probably a gem..and like someone said a low torque high rev engine ala M3 is retarded in heavy trucks like these..

The problem is the car itself.. and the decision to give it the M treatment..

belive me this is the first of many NON-M things you will see with this car..
and it really isnt M´s fault..as the platform is not suited for M philosophy ( or what was known as M philosophy)

completely agree - hence it would have been better to have the SUV's badged differently (IMO, even "is" was perfectly acceptable as was the case on the E53 X5)

Anyways, pointless crying over spilled milk. Looking forward to the dubai pics, and some good video's hopefully.

 

[Sayyaaf]

M philosophy or not, this car is reality. I will take my case as an example, I almost went with the 7 years old cayenne because it offered more power and driving dynamics, now I will consider the X5 as a strong contender. Of course not everybody might think of taking this off road but my BMW proofed to be solid in the wild. Last month I took it off road and it had a very good off road setup except I was affraid of hitting some thing with that low ground clearnce, now I mention this because that might be the only advantage of the current cayenne over the X5.

Now regarding M philosophy, yes this would made more sense badged as an "iS" series but i guess the effort done to make this car happen is more than just engine tweaks and hardened suspension, the steering is different, the chassis is more track-friendly, the turbo lag is almost vansihed (as the press release suggests by using new patented manifold), the AWD is more rear biased ... etc hence, I guess M Gmbh would be really pissed off if that was not recognized by the public.

So far, I like the outcome of this and wish I was in the market for performance SUV cause this will be the right product for me.

One more thing, this time I will go with X5 only for practicality nothing else, X6M looks good but the X5M suits me better.

Looking forward to test drive this when it comes. BTW G power did a terrific job with X5 as they seem to have a good relation with BMW AbuDhabi motors, they have done a project here in AD and it is awesome. Supercharged V8 4.4l with almost 500 HP if I am not mistakn

 

[Deutsch]

The problem is not the engine..its probably a gem..and like someone said a low torque high rev engine ala M3 is retarded in heavy trucks like these..

The problem is the car itself.. and the decision to give it the M treatment..

belive me this is the first of many NON-M things you will see with this car..
and it really isnt M´s fault..as the platform is not suited for M philosophy ( or what was known as M philosophy)

completely agree - hence it would have been better to have the SUV's badged differently (IMO, even "is" was perfectly acceptable as was the case on the E53 X5)

Anyways, pointless crying over spilled milk. Looking forward to the dubai pics, and some good video's hopefully.

What??? The X5/6 are just a bigger/heavier 5 series.

 

[Zafiro]

It worries me if all next M models are going to use Automatic gearboxes instead of DCT gearboxes. Turbo and torque going to be tough for a DCT gearbox.

 

[Merc1]

I'm over the M philosophy debate because it changes to suit whatever vehicle being introduced. A V6 M3? Nothing more to say if that does happen. Making money is the "philosophy".

Anyway this X6 M is going to be hot. Can't wait for the comparos between it and the ML63, Cayenne Turbo. It will likely have to be a next generation Cayenne to defeat this new monster.


M

 

[Sayyaaf]

It worries me if all next M models are going to use Automatic gearboxes instead of DCT gearboxes. Turbo and torque going to be tough for a DCT gearbox.

Although that was a huge let down for me personally, BUT i guess time and resources limited the availability of such expensive solution. I truely was anticipating such exotic gearbox for the X5/6M and the Panamera got my hopes high since it has a FI with PDK but I guess that was an in-house developement and limited to PAG/VAG only.

The availability of Launch control and high speed shifts will tighten the gap between Auto's & DCT but I guess still the later is much more better for performance and fuel efficiency.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

The badge looks like it's just been stuck on the boot as an after thought or some chav has stolen it from another car. Absolutely terrible. I real low point for "M" I'm afraid. I really hate to say it.

 

[Sayyaaf]

debadge my friend if really that thing put you off from getting this car

 

[Betty Swollocks]

debadge my friend if really that thing put you off from getting this car

No danger of that.

I love the X6. Seriously, I do. I just don't see the need of a 550bhp X6. Or an M3 cabriolet for that matter. They are applying performance enhancements to an already compromised base.

 

[SKY]

Even when it is going to be a great SUV, the problem is that BMW has a very very big mouth, and has spent years talking about what deserves the M badge and what not. And the same goes for the future M3. It´s not how the engine is, but how the car drives. But BMW focus their marketing in trying to give their cars some exagerated atributes. An engine is not better by how its cylinders are located, and you can build an exotic SUV if you want, but don´t expect it to be the same as a M5.

So BMW can say whatever, that this new 4.4 TT V8 is not that far from a NA engine and that things, but that´s pure marketing, it is not going to be as a NA engine, it´s going to be different (not meaning worse), and fo course it won´t be the same as a M sedan or a M coupe, that´s for sure.

So why is people fed up? Because BMW spent two years saying a X5 didn´t deseve the M badge, as if the M cars were created by god or sometinh like that. Instead of that, AMG does not say anything, and when they make a huge monster like the S 65 AMG, anybody says anything.

The front looks good, even when it has the same bumper than the current X6 but without the fogs and a body coloured part at the bottom. The rear dones´t look that good, I´ve always think this latest M cars has the exhausts smaller than they should. The interior could have been improoved more, with sporty seats and a different steering wheel (M designed steering wheels are becoming very boring this times).

The best of all? The engine, it´s got potential, even when it´s more like what AMG would have done, in a M5 is going to be impressive, the pitty is that it won´t have DCT.

 

[Merc1]

Bingo!


M

 

[bmer]

Embargo ends in few hours.

It still hasn't ended?

 

[Zafiro]

we got fooled. counter restarted...

 

[bmer]

we got fooled. counter restarted...

Nah, it's going on minus-numbers. But the Press Kit is now out on BMW Press site. Looks like the embargo ended on 6 PM EDT.

 

[bmer]

Pictures have been released as well.

 

[Zafiro]

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p90045789.jpg

 

[EnI]

So why is people fed up? Because BMW spent two years saying a X5 didn´t deseve the M badge, as if the M cars were created by god or sometinh like that. Instead of that, AMG does not say anything, and when they make a huge monster like the S 65 AMG, anybody says anything.

X5 M was developed since its underpinnings are identical to X6 M ones. And people wanted an M SAV form BMW in certain markets. And since X6 M was a go from the beginning, the Bosses decided to also add the X5 M - to satisfy some extra customers. X5 M was greenlighted later than X6 M! Mind some products aren't planned in the beginning (eg. E85 Z4 M, E86 Z4 Coupe, E60 M5 manual etc), and are greenlighted later.

I'm sure eg. X5 M / X6 will sell extremely well. Therefore it would be a stupid business decision not to make such cars only due to some archaic principles ("SAV is not a sports car" ... btw, nor is a Touring!) - especially since the tech (& its availability) now allows M to make a sporty SUV - they proved they can with the X5 LeMans Concept but the serial model would be just too costly to make at that time.

And now all the available electronic systems (based on super-fast FlexRay) + advanced turbo tech + electronic gearboxes make such cars possible even in M version. Yet that wasn't able with E53 (for a reasonable price).

Also: yes, it's a marketing decision. If there is a demand, if the car is cheap enough to develop & produce to return high profits, if it fits the brand by delivering the core promises - then there is absolutely no reason not to offer such a car. Whatever tech is used.

And, geez, turbo engines are nothing new to BMW Motorsport ... At least in reacing they were there in the turbo era ... And the turbo era is now coming back. Yet this time due different reasons.


*****

Regarding marketing talk: its task is to communicate & expose the most obvious and special features of a certain car / brand at a certain time.
So, in the NA era the emphais was on promoting NA engines, now in the turbo-era it's time to promote turbos etc. But the main brand values & characteristics are staying the same.